Now what?

[rjmwx81]

So it sounds to me like it's 180 days from the filing. The phrase you have to watch out for is "becomes entitled to acquire." So even if you don't have cash from the inheritance in your hands 180 days after filing, if you learn of the inheritance within 180 days of the filing you need to report it.

[nc73]

Why did you even post here? Keep quiet. You did nothing wrong.

[despritfreya]

It is advice like,

"Why did you even post here? Keep quiet. You did nothing wrong."

that keeps me in business so I guess I should be grateful.

"Murphy's Law" - whatever can go wrong will go wrong. And, yes, there are those who slip through without disclosing, but for those who don't - well let's just say "Club Fed" is not such a nice place to park your keister in for 38 or so months. (And it does happen.)

The OP was correct to ask questions. Now he/she will do the “right” thing and let the attorney know, therefore eliminate any possibility of being caught in a potentially very bad situation.

Des.

[despritfreya]

In response to"

"So even if you don't have cash from the inheritance in your hands 180 days after filing, if you learn of the inheritance within 180 days of the filing you need to report it. "

Not quite. Many of you are confusing the 2 provisions of 541 and what an entitlement to an inheritance is.

A “will” speaks upon death. OP's relative died prior to the bk being file. If OP was mentioned as a beneficiary her "right" to the inheritance came into being the moment the relative died. Probate can take time and can be contested. The probate estate can be exhausted due to other things that get paid prior to the heirs. There may never be a distribution to the heirs but there is a "right" nonetheless. It is this "right" to collect which was in existence before the case was filed. It is this "right" to collect that is covered by 541(a) as a legal or equitable interest in property. It is this “right” which must be listed in Schedule B.

On the other hand, 541(b) deals with a “right” that comes into existence after the case is filed, if that “right” arises within 180 days after the petition date. For the “right” to come into existence under this provision the relative must pass on within the 180 days - remember, a “will” speaks at the time of death, not before, or after.

Receipt of the inheritance has nothing to do with it. It is the “right” to the inheritance that is key.

Des.

[tobee43]

well...des...LOL!!! not really.........whle 541 suggest that a will was sometime years or times not known to the OP....the OP simply will not be responsible.

wills are made when people give birth!! so 50 years later one is sitting there filing out a bk petition never realizing their dear grandparents whom are still alive at the time of filing put them in their will 50 years prior. NEVER...no legal basic of ANY argument would make it. in other words..........what you are saying is ANYONE and EVERYONE that has file chaptered 7 and been discharged EVER and is in someone's will and 10 years down the road finds out that person is entitled to an inheritance AND the will was made 5 or 10 etc. years PRIOR to their filing....they would have to amend their petition.....it will never happen.

receipt of KNOWING and being legally...the key being "LEGALLY" and officially informed of the inheritance is the key here. once OP is officially served with probate papers is the key...or at times a will be issued prior from the probate courts. that's the way it works in MOST states.

and most probate cases i have worked with, one special in mind...took 10 years!!! right.... 10 years prior to release and distribution form the probate courts alone......THENNNNNNNNNN.....to the trustee of the estate...another process of release...and it's only then, of course depending on the type of estate, and where the sources of the funds come from, one would now after taxes if applicable get to the "net" amount of the actual distribution. THUS....at this point the OP may not even have an exact amount. OR yes, it could just be simple...and be a set of silver candle sticks.

while the court could question it, believe me, it is so doubtful. they have better things to do with their time...like assign council to go after a petition that someone owes 400k and will not pay the debtor...that's where the courts spend their time...if ever.

also....OP now knows he or she is in a will...could; as i stated possibly take years for distribution...small or large amounts...beleive...the BK courts aren't after it unless it's millions. it simply is NOT worth their time or errors. if it were, the BK would put special counsel on it via the courts and see it thru....the likelihood of this happening is about as likely as i am going to inherent a million bucks...LOL

[helpmeout]

people are so riddled with guilt and shame....i know of no law that says you have to ammend or re-open a closed bankruptcy to declare an amount of money you had no idea at the time of filing you would be receiving in the future.

My bankruptcy attorney, who actually knows the bankruptcy laws very specifically told me that if I were to inherit anything within 180 days of filing that I immediately needed to let them know so that they can notify the Trustee.

And that if I didn't, my discharge could be reversed and the debt NEVER discharged.

And you claim to be a paralegal. You are giving out very dangerous legal advice. One that could cause the OP to have the discharge reversed and not be able to ever discharge the debt.

[tobee43]

i don't claim anything....i am a paralegal and PLEASE respect and READ...... NOT ON THIS SITE AND NOT IN BK ....and you need to read more carefully before you make any statements...but i handled estates and distributions for many years. and i DO know how that was handled. i have ALSO worked with clients that HAVE had to fight creditors HUGE ones in bankruptcy's and were assigned special counsel and i have FIRST hand knowledge of what the courts at that time were going after. NOT THAT i need to explain myself to YOU.

i stand by what i wrote...no one is asking anyone to agree....i write what i have experienced first hand...or make suggestions...NOT Legal advise. please READ disclaimers of this site...oh my!!

i will go through this AGAIN for those who personally like to attack...although i said i would not do it publicly again.

GET THIS....do not attract me personally because you are inept. move on, if you don't like what i write...end of story...

oh...and ps...i have known many MANY more atty's that DID not know the laws than DO. just put it in your pocket and keep that there. that's why they had me.

[df04527]

well this thread went to heck........ disappointing.

[helpmeout]

You said:

i don't claim anything....i am a paralegal and PLEASE respect and READ


My response:

Respect someone who claims to be a paralegal that goes around saying that the federal exemptions can be used in ALL states? And know of no law that says you have to amend schedules should you learn you will be receiving an inheritance within 180 days of filing for bankruptcy all the while it is in the bk laws that you must do so?

All I see is someone who is giving out dangerous advice. All the while claiming to be a paralegal.

You said:

...... NOT ON THIS SITE AND NOT IN BK ....and you need to read more carefully before you make any statements

My response:

We've been down this route before. You are the one who needs to read more carefully. Especially before you go making statements like you did regarding inheritances.

You said:

...but i handled estates and distributions for many years. and i DO know how that was handled.

My response:

Uh-huh.

You said:

i have ALSO worked with clients that HAVE had to fight creditors HUGE ones in bankruptcy's and were assigned special counsel and i have FIRST hand knowledge of what the courts at that time were going after. NOT THAT i need to explain myself to YOU.

My response:

Too bad you didn't learn anything while doing all of the above.

You said:

i stand by what i wrote...no one is asking anyone to agree....i write what i have experienced first hand...or make suggestions...NOT Legal advise.

My response:

Doesn't matter whether I agree with you or not. What is going to matter is if a BK judge agrees with you. And the BK law is a pretty good indication that s/he will not.

You said:

i will go through this AGAIN for those who personally like to attack...although i said i would not do it publicly again.

My response:

The only time someone disagrees with you is when YOU give out misinformation.

You said:

GET THIS....do not attract me personally because you are inept. move on, if you don't like what i write...end of story...

My response:

You may want to take some writing courses, because the above makes no sense at all.

But I will assume that you meant attack instead of attract.

Nobody is attacking you. Just correcting your misinformation so that a poster doesn't actually jeopardize their discharge. The only person who is inept is, well, you.

You said:

oh...and ps...i have known many more atty's that DID not know the laws than DO. just put it in your pocket and keep that there.

My response:

I'm sure there are many lawyers out there who do not know the laws. Just like there are many "paralegals" who do not know the laws and go around giving misinformation out, such as yourself. If your ego can't handle your misinformation being corrected, then perhaps you shouldn't post misinformation.

[tobee43]

well this thread went to heck........ disappointing.

most certainly did...poor OP....


if your still there...call your atty...he or she will let you know it will be all ok. honest.

[helpmeout]

well this thread went to heck........ disappointing.

Yes, it did. Unfortunately, when misinformation is given out it does have to be addressed. To the OP: contact your attorney, s/he will let you know if you fall into the time frame where schedules need to be amended.

[despritfreya]

My gosh,

I go away for a day and look what happens. Please folks. We are not here to ridicule anyone. We are here to discuss our experiences and give our personal thoughts and advice. We are also here to educate. Name calling is not becoming of this forum.

In direct response to the mis information given by some posters, the easiest way to correct the record is to cite to Case law that interprets the Code.

1. A will speaks at death since it can be changed until the death of the testator.
2. An inheritance to which one becomes entitled to (even if not known) prior to filing bk is an asset under 541(a)(1).
3. An inheritance to which one becomes entitled to after the filing of the bk (testator dies within 180 days and debtor is in the will) becomes an asset of the estate under 541(a)(5).
4. Failure to disclose can result in the revocation of the Discharge under 727(d)(2).
5. Under 727(e) A Trustee, creditor or the UST has up to 1 year after the case is closed to bring an action under 727(d)(2).

All you have to do is read each provision.

As to Case Law:

In re McNiell 193 B.R. 654 (Bankr. E.D.N.Y. 1996):

Under New York law and the decision in In re Bentley 120 B.R. 712 (Bankr. S.D.N.Y. 1990),the Debtors' interest in the bequest, having arisen prior to the bankruptcy filing, on the date of Isabella McNeill's death, is property of the estate under Section 541(a)(1)which is effective as of the date of her death. Further the Court of Appeals for the First Circuit has held that under Massachusetts law, an undistributed bequest at the time of the commencement of the bankruptcy case is property of the Chapter 7 estate under Section 541(a)(1). . .

In re Jackson

[tobee43]

yes, des...where were YOU when i was getting beaten up...LOL!!!!

you at least beat me up with intelligence and with fortitude! i appreciate that!!...now and this is my FINAL ANSWER...(i have heard there is some show that says that).......

however, that's only two cases!!! and they could have been state ruled as well as they are OLD rulings.

and, once again...OP never did say when he or she actually filed their petition because that is where the "true" answer lay.

also, interesting enough, none of the cases you cite are "recent"...i really wonder why?

maybe it's because:

1. people just never report it
2. even when they do, it may not be worth the courts effort to retrieve the amount involved.
3. there is perhaps no current case under the new federal bankruptcy laws settled as of this date.

now this certainly DOES conclude the matter for me...but I FOR one am very pleased with your return.

[keepmine]

OP never did say when he or she actually filed their petition because that is where the "true" answer lay.

Actually, she did say when it was filed. Read her initial post. She filed in May and was discharged last week.

You can dance around this all you like but, that inheritence is property of the bk estate.
Doesn't matter if she knew about it at the time of filing or not.

[despritfreya]

In response to:

maybe it's because:

1. people just never report it - true but get caught, lose discharge & maybe go to jail.
2. even when they do, it may not be worth the courts effort to retrieve the amount involved. Always possible then the Trustee will abandon the asset.
3. there is perhaps no current case under the new federal bankruptcy laws settled as of this date. Nope - totally wrong. This portion of the Code is the same today as it was when I started in the late 1980's Read on. . .