Do I include this?

[browneyes]

I am trying to update my schedules with information. Where does one make the determination to include an amount on the list of debts? What constitues debt? A cable bill? A copay?

If you have made arrangements to take care of a small balance does it get included/discharged? Also what about things like the cable/internet and utility bills? Do those get included?? I am overwhelmed AND confused with trying to think of everying but it's a case where I am over-thinking it.

Also what if you have outstanding checks at the time of your filing?

[ccsjoe]

Normally utility and service bills are paid one month in advance, hence they are not debt. They are utilities, telecomm, etc. These have their places both on the means test and on Schedule J.

Is the small balance a utility related debt? Are you taking care of it prior to filing? Shortly after filing? If yes to the previous, then, no, I would not include it as a debt.

As far as outstanding checks I recommend you start paying people with either online bill pay or cash (money order, etc) approx. 4 weeks prior to filing so you don't have any outstanding checks. Some trustees understand outstanding checks, some others don't care and just see you have cash available.

[browneyes]

Utilities, copays, etc.

The thing I don't understand is medical copays, utilities, etc are included in your expenses list, so they are already accounted for...and I am not talking about a service that you closed out and have an outstanding balance...I mean the kids doctor copays, cable/internet bill, and utiliities etc. It doesn't make sense to me that something I consider a regular monthly expense would be included. I never entered into a "promise to pay" as in a loan/credit card, but a service they provide that I pay for as part of my living expenses. Doesn't make sense.

[tcreegan]

expenses

Hi browneyes,

It gets confusing b/c debts can be expenses but not all expenses are debts.

Payments on some debt (think mortgage payment) is a monthly expenses.
kids copays, the cable co., internet provider, etc are not debts, but they are monthly expensees.

subtracting expenses from monthly income gives your "disposable" income: DMI

you do this twice: one is the means test, the other is your scheds I & J

The amount of your DMI needs to be as close to, or less then, zero as you can get it.

Good luck to you in figuring this all out, remember there are many folks here to answer you questions.

Best to you!

Tom in Colo

Too much +DMI will call for a converstion to ch 13,

[browneyes]

I do understand for the schedule I/J that they go under expenses there, but what about on the schedule F in the unsecured debts - do they get included? These are active, open accounts where I use their services regularly and pay them regularly.

If I file and as of the date of filing I haven't made payment on them yet do I include them?

Thank you.

[ccsjoe]

No they do not go on F. Unsecured debts are credit cards and other lines of credit, overdafts, payday advances, etc.

The items you are describing in your previous post are only and exclusively expenses, not debts.