How long before you filed and why?

[frogger]

freddy...they are BOTTOM feeders..the worse kind there are...i think almost as bad as collection agency some of them!!!

The debt settlement companies are worse than the collection agencies.

Most of them are nothing more than liars that will get you in a worse financial position than you're already in.

[ccsjoe]

I think just knowing that someone else had to or wants to wait for X number of months to file will maybe make it easier for me, knowing I am not alone. I may even have to wait 1 year.

I wasn't really our choice. Until the end of August we have childcare expenses to the tune of almost 1K/month. Beginning September, those drop to only $250/month, plus the token amount they give you for school expenses (I think $180/month or something) so in order to pass the means test we needed the 850 amount. Thus we had to ramrod this thing through in 1 month.

[gman]

The debt settlement companies are worse than the collection agencies.

Most of them are nothing more than liars that will get you in a worse financial position than you're already in.

I spoke with a few debt settlement companies back in 2008. I opted not to use any of them. I came to the same conclusion as the others positing here...they could be worse than the debt collectors AND if you have the resources to do debt settlement - you can do it on your won for a fraction of the cost and risk.

Back in 2008, I started down the path of doing debt settlement on my own. I found a good website for doing debt settlement on your own and actually spoke for 30 minutes to the guy who owns the website/company for free.

He was very honest and actually said he could not help me given my then current situation. How often do you hear people turn away business???

He gave me great advice on how to do a 'stealth bankruptcy' and dodge creditors while I tried to save up the $$$ to do one-time debt settlement offers to the debt collectors. His advice was solid.

His website is www.zipdebt.com.

I simply had too much debt and not enough cash saved up to do a debt settlement. Others may be in a different boat than me. I figured Chapter 7 was the path for me.

I must say I would never do a Chapter 13. I have heard nothing but nightmares about that process and while I observed the Chapter 7 cases - there were a good number of people who filed Chapter 13 within the last 2 years who were converting to a Chapter 7. I figure they have lost another $2-4k in legal fees and an untold amount of payments to the Trustee that simply went down the drain.

[gman]

[QUOTE=ccsjoe;444302]I wasn't really our choice. Until the end of August we have childcare expenses to the tune of almost 1K/month. Beginning September, those drop to only $250/month
[QUOTE]

Be careful here. The Means Test looks backwards but Schedule J (expenses) look forward. In Schedule J - you might have to put down childcare as only $250 and this might screw up your DMI for Schedules I & J which are almost always different than the Means Test DMI.

You better double check with your lawyer (and others) to play it safe.

, plus the token amount they give you for school expenses (I think $180/month or something) so in order to pass the means test we needed the 850 amount. Thus we had to ramrod this thing through in 1 month.

The Means Test does not allow for school expenses at all. I hope your attorney did not tell you the $180 amount!

School expenses typically fall under line 19A of form B22A (the Means Test form for Chapter 7) which includes food, clothing, household supplies, drycleaning, etc. This line has a cap on the amount set by the IRS by bankruptcy district. You could spend $2,000/mo but if your IRS cap is $950, you get $950 on the Means Test.

Sucks, but it is what it is.

[tobee43]

I must say I would never do a Chapter 13. I have heard nothing but nightmares about that process and while I observed the Chapter 7 cases - there were a good number of people who filed Chapter 13 within the last 2 years who were converting to a Chapter 7. I figure they have lost another $2-4k in legal fees and an untold amount of payments to the Trustee that simply went down the drain.

you got that right...i know a chapter 13 may work for a few...those that are talked into it...when they should go 7 is what really gets me....i hate to repeat this over and over again...but chapter 13 new laws were designed by the banks and the atty's that line their pockets with the payments these poor people make...

we went to atty's that insisted we go 13....and walked right out...if they couldn't figure out how to get us into a 7 they were not the atty for us...but remember we lost our jobs...had little or no chance of ever being able to recoup at our age..so it is different for everyone...maybe a chapter 13 is good for 25 year old with a great future?

[ccsjoe]

[QUOTE=gman;444309][QUOTE=ccsjoe;444302]I wasn't really our choice. Until the end of August we have childcare expenses to the tune of almost 1K/month. Beginning September, those drop to only $250/month

Be careful here. The Means Test looks backwards but Schedule J (expenses) look forward. In Schedule J - you might have to put down childcare as only $250 and this might screw up your DMI for Schedules I & J which are almost always different than the Means Test DMI.

You better double check with your lawyer (and others) to play it safe.



The Means Test does not allow for school expenses at all. I hope your attorney did not tell you the $180 amount!

School expenses typically fall under line 19A of form B22A (the Means Test form for Chapter 7) which includes food, clothing, household supplies, drycleaning, etc. This line has a cap on the amount set by the IRS by bankruptcy district. You could spend $2,000/mo but if your IRS cap is $950, you get $950 on the Means Test.

Sucks, but it is what it is.

Gman,

Thanks, but one note there. Educational expenses for minor children are covered on the means test (B22A) under line 38 @ $147.92/month.

But that notwithstaning, yes, Means is back look, I&J are forward look. Means shows 850/month childcare, J shows 250/month childcare plus 550/month school. We are allowed to include private school payments in J as it is forward looking and quite the norm in our district.

[gman]

[QUOTE=ccsjoe;444314][QUOTE=gman;444309]

I wasn't really our choice. Until the end of August we have childcare expenses to the tune of almost 1K/month. Beginning September, those drop to only $250/month


Gman,

Thanks, but one note there. Educational expenses for minor children are covered on the means test (B22A) under line 38 @ $147.92/month.

But that notwithstaning, yes, Means is back look, I&J are forward look. Means shows 850/month childcare, J shows 250/month childcare plus 550/month school. We are allowed to include private school payments in J as it is forward looking and quite the norm in our district.

True....just making sure others are aware that educational expenses and daycare are not one in the same.

On the Means Test - daycare is covered on Line 30 while private school is listed on Line 38 (as you stated correctly above.)

I now see why "summer daycare" helps you qualify on the Means Test. What a crazy (and good) loophole for you! I wonder if other debtors/lawyers have figured this out?

[ccsjoe]

[QUOTE=gman;444319][QUOTE=ccsjoe;444314]

I now see why "summer daycare" helps you qualify on the Means Test. What a crazy (and good) loophole for you! I wonder if other debtors/lawyers have figured this out?

It is a great loophole, however, it wasn't a loophole for us at all but a reality. We've been incurring childcare (preschool) expenses for about 2 years now, full day, five days a week. The change in numbers comes from her "graduating" preschool and starting Kinder.

However, for anybody else who might have "summer childcare" expenses, yes absolutely!!

[2bdebtfree]

Nomoneyhoney, Thank you for your response. I'm going to file with an attorney. There is no way I could to it pro se. Too much anxiety. I know I have to play the waiting game. It is a big lesson.

I came to the realization that even though I have some responsibility for the debt, especially the cash advance, my husband should take some blame. He has not had a steady job for years. Only doing odd jobs here and there. So I have the brunt of the responsibility of all the obligations. The house, kids, work, bills, etc. Now maybe I can wake up and smell the coffee and not let the same thing happen and send him on his way. He takes no responsiblity now for what is going on. I know I'm off topic but that is all I will say. I look at him a different way now. How we got here, how to fix it, etc., he's just la te da. Granted he has health issues but not 5 years ago. Besides changing how I spend money I might just have to change my marital status.

Back to subject. lol I should take an afternoon and go to the courthousee. It is up the street from where I work so I could listen to some 341 meetings so I can prepare myself for it.

Thanks for the responses.

[2bdebtfree]

That was the only cash advance I ever took. Everything else was for necessaties. Not really any luxurary items. 1 laptop that cost $350. All else - food, gas, clothing, car repairs. Wish I wasn't so impulsive. UUgghhh

[tobee43]

2bdebtfree... i really feel for your situation.......i can't believe if you took a cash advance for needs it's going to be that bad....just try and get an atty that will take payments wait out the 90 days before filing and if asked...just tell them...i'm the sole supporter of the family...

i even think trustee's have hearts sometimes.

[gman]

Nomoneyhoney, Thank you for your response. I'm going to file with an attorney. There is no way I could to it pro se. Too much anxiety. I know I have to play the waiting game. It is a big lesson.

I came to the realization that even though I have some responsibility for the debt, especially the cash advance, my husband should take some blame. He has not had a steady job for years. Only doing odd jobs here and there. So I have the brunt of the responsibility of all the obligations. The house, kids, work, bills, etc. Now maybe I can wake up and smell the coffee and not let the same thing happen and send him on his way. He takes no responsiblity now for what is going on. I know I'm off topic but that is all I will say. I look at him a different way now. How we got here, how to fix it, etc., he's just la te da. Granted he has health issues but not 5 years ago. Besides changing how I spend money I might just have to change my marital status.

Back to subject. lol I should take an afternoon and go to the courthousee. It is up the street from where I work so I could listen to some 341 meetings so I can prepare myself for it.

Thanks for the responses.

On a personal note - do what you can not to assign blame. Being married means being on a team - for better or for worse - for richer for poorer - you catch my drift.

In my situation there is a lot of blame that could be spread around. HER illness. MY business failure. HER spending. MY legal (ex wife/custody battle) costs. The ECONOMY as a whole.

Realize you are both in the same sinking boat and the most important thing is to stop the boat from sinking, pump out the water (debt) that is in the boat, and start sailing again (after bankruptcy.)

After you have completed the entire process, then you can start working on what EACH of you did to make the hole happen in the first place. You may conclude the tidal wave (of the economy) may have caused your boat capsize no matter what.

Though assigning blame might make you feel better - in every similar situation I have seen - it only makes things worse and - worst of all - saps your ENERGY while you need it to fix your boat!!!!

Best of luck with everything.

[tobee43]

On a personal note - do what you can not to assign blame. Being married means being on a team - for better or for worse - for richer for poorer - you catch my drift.

In my situation there is a lot of blame that could be spread around. HER illness. MY business failure. HER spending. MY legal (ex wife/custody battle) costs. The ECONOMY as a whole.

gman that is indeed, a very wise statement...we need to take responsiblity for ourselves by ourselves. period.

[2bdebtfree]

Thank you Gman! That gives me alot to think about. So many emotions involved in bk. Trying to put them where they should be.

[Freddy03]

I might note that the only credit card lawsuit I had was from one where I wrote and told them to no longer contact me.

I heard later from a former debt-collector that in his prior company, those "don't bother me letters" caused them to instantly file suit.

My 1st lawsuit I ignored the calls and letter (prior to receiving the summons). Never sent a debt validation letter. Lawsuit just showed up.

My next 2 lawsuits came within 30 days of me sending them a debt validation letter with cease and desist included.

All of the other cards I have ignored with only a few calls here and there.