Landlord (rent) question - before and after a Chapter 7

[ccsjoe]

kartoons, that's what my attorney is doing because I do not want my landlord notified at all if popssible either. Please let us know the outcome (if it comes up or not) in your 341 in 2 days!!!! Good luck

[gman]

Great information Empowered (I like your name by the way ;^) ). I guess I will find out on Thursday if this is an issue, but again I'm not expecting it to be.

Can you possibly post the results of your 341 on this thread? Thanks!

[kartoons19]

Can you possibly post the results of your 341 on this thread? Thanks!

Sure, no problem. Hopefully it will go smoothly!

[empowered]

Thanks kartoons19. Knowledge is power for the financially downtrodden and bankrupt among us. :] I chose the name empowered because, having left my Chapter 13 to some attorneys I would not give my business to a second time, as I prepared to refile as a Chapter 7 on my own it was obvious that with the help of resources like this one, I could learn enough, be empowered enough, to be a better advocate for myself than most attorneys would be for me.

And so it is! At least, that's what one hopes (after rectifying my own mistakes by the seat of my pants!).

And how, pray tell, were you gifted with the name kartoons19? Perhaps you can enlighten us with that information when you report back on your 341.

Sleep well, all ye bankrupt souls.

[kartoons19]

Thanks kartoons19. Knowledge is power for the financially downtrodden and bankrupt among us. :] I chose the name empowered because, having left my Chapter 13 to some attorneys I would not give my business to a second time, as I prepared to refile as a Chapter 7 on my own it was obvious that with the help of resources like this one, I could learn enough, be empowered enough, to be a better advocate for myself than most attorneys would be for me.

And how, pray tell, were you gifted with the name kartoons19? Perhaps you can enlighten us with that information when you report back on your 341.

Good for you for taking charge. I have learned more through this forum than from my attorney. There are times I wished I would have filed on my own. I hope it works out for you. Empowerment is a great thing!

Kartoons19? Well I'm afraid there is not a big story behind it. I like the old Warner Brothers cartoons. Is that coyote ever going to catch the roadrunner? How many times can he keep falling off the mountain and survive? I also love music, so it also stands for "cartunes". I especially love music in my car because I can play it as loud as I want, and sing out loud without hurting anyone's eardrums. Let's just say you won't see me on the finals of American Idol anytime soon! I have also been known to do a little car dancing. Plus I like the number 19. So that's it. Not very empowering, but a little fun.

[kartoons19]

Okay, as promised here is what I found out at my 341. I just made wrote a long post under the 341 section if you want more information.

As for rent, the issue never came up. He did not ask if I rented or if it was a lease or month-to-month, it just didn't come up. I also didn't hear him ask anyone else about it either. The only information I had to gave about my home is when I had to state my name and address for the record. Joe, even though I am in a different district, I seriously doubt that it will be an issue that you didn't list your rent under contracts.

The other issue was being unemployed. He never asked if anything changed since filing. I was employed at the time of filing, but was laid off 10 days ago. The issue never came up. He really seemed to be interested in the status on filing day and that is it.

Hopefully I answered your questions, but if not ask away, I'll be glad to answer. The 341 really is as easy as everyone says it is, as long as you are honest and prepared. Good luck.

[empowered]

Frankly, though I'm no attorney, I don't really understand this concern with listing rental leases or agreements in the schedules or whether they would be subject to reaffirmation as mentioned in another thread. The reason why this makes no sense to me is that they're not considered "secured," are they? How can a rental lease be secured when the owner secures the property? Seems like deposits secure the condition in which the property is returned to the owner alone. I would have thought that the section in which leases are to be listed is provided for leases on vehicles and equipment or on business space leases -- the rights and responsibilities of these types of leases seem markedly different than those of a residential lease holder.

And why would you reaffirm a long-term lease only and not a month-to-month agreement or default lease term? If the rent is considered excessive for the monthly income of a long-term lease it should still be excessive considering the income of a month-to-month lease holder. Very few people are continually subject to lease terms that are renewed on terms longer than monthly.

I don't know. Perhaps the owners of properties in arrears are required by law in some locales to inform their tenants. But if owners can demand that a tenant who is filing for bankruptcy but current on his or her rent show the ability to pay future rent, I would hope that there was some provision by which property owners in arrears on their mortgages were legally bound to inform the tenants of their properties instead of just pocketing the rent and not paying the mortgage, leaving tenants in the dark until a notice is posted on the front door.

If I were the holder of a lease that contained a clause saying that the lease would be broken by my filing for bankruptcy, I would also do some research to find out whether that clause was proper under local landlord-tenant law and whether such a lease, even if I had signed it, was valid. Of course, in my experience, the remedy is generally that the tenant is allowed to move and since that's not the goal I'd probably just keep whatever I learned to myself and guard my privacy to the extent possible.

I'm also curious to know what the interplay would be between local tenants' law and the federal bankruptcy law that allows a landlord to challenge the ability of a tenant to pay the rent, even if the tenant has a good payment history at the time of filing. Some locales have very strong tenants' law when it comes to grounds for eviction and it sounds like that's what the logical conclusion would be in a case where the landlord or the trustee took issue with lease terms.

I suspect, however, that the legal concerns generally are focused on homeowners and property assets and that's probably why the issue of how bankruptcy affects tenancy seems so murky.

Eh, so much for all that. If there are any attorneys around who can correct or otherwise comment on my many suppositions, I'd love to learn more.

[kartoons19]

I agree, I don't think it should have to be listed. My cellphone wasn't listed either. Notifying a landlord about a bk, when the tenant is current in payments is just doesn't make sense to me. Then agian I don't think the auto insurance companies should raise rates just because of a BK.

I have never been late with rent and don't ever plan on being late. I'm in Colorado, which I have heard in the past is a very pro-landlord state. This may have changed over the years. I'm not sure, I've never had any issues. I did check my lease and did not see that a BK would negate the lease. Since I've been here for so many years, never missed a payment and have already passed the application process, I didn't think it was any of their business that I filed, so that is why I didn't want them to know.

[ccsjoe]

empowered, I recall from a previous thread you wanted to know the outcome of my landlord listing or not situation. Here it goes:

On the lease issue, I am going to end up listing my landlord due to a mistake by the paralegal.

Attorney wanted to discuss issue only verbally so there would be no written record that we were technically conspiring to omit information from the petition. Paralegal sent me an email with a final draft of my petition saying "per your discussion with XXXX and his instruction, he is comfortable with omitting your landlord in order to avoid the notification. This revision is included in the attached draft." He reamed the paralegal in private later.

So, after that one, to cover everyone's rear ends, we agreed it was better to list since there was now a written record. I will be calling my LL on Wednesday when he returns from overseas to have a chat with him. Thinking of angling this towards overwhelming medical bills that will have no effect on him, all he will receive is a notice, no worries. Hopefully that'll fly.

I agree with both you and toons that since you pay in advance, not arrears, it should not create a creditor lease type situation, but my attorney has been spot on so far and if he feels strongly enough about this to argue with me, then so be it.