roommate question

[momofthree]

Beeheery, what if you paid him rent with utilities included for several months? Then he'd simply be your landlord (since he owns the home). You'd have a negative dmi, but many people who file ch 7 seem to have a negative dmi.

[tcreegan]

more roommate confusion



Found this, the way I read it is that you have to count all the roommate pays (regularly) toward household expenses as income. But not the rest of roommates income.

Also, US Trustee position is to use IRS definition of dependent but BK courts are not agreeing, using the Census definition of household instead ("heads on the beds" everyone who lives in the housing-unit)

Just in case things aren't confused enough....

Tom in Colo

[keptdigging]

This is really messed up... you need a star bk lawyer who has the time and dedication to want to make law. Because the whole idea of the means test is to move people into Chapter 13s. But if you have no cash income of your own you cannot possibly qualify for a 13. This is the law being insane, needing a judge to look at it.

(Remember this the next time you're in favor of a law which tries to take judges out of the picture--this is what happens when law gets mechanical.)

Seriously how can a couch surfer which little or no cash income not qualify for a Chapter 7 based on non-cash income that under no circumstances could ever be available to creditors?

[bigtim6656]

Laws and rule like this is what makes a guy not want to be honest or say hey I own this or that. Honesty I thought how most of my stuff I could leave "OUT" aka lie. Then I thought how I had 8k in a wildcard and about 5k in stuff.

[backtoschool]

Found this, the way I read it is that you have to count all the roommate pays (regularly) toward household expenses as income. But not the rest of roommates income.

Also, US Trustee position is to use IRS definition of dependent but BK courts are not agreeing, using the Census definition of household instead ("heads on the beds" everyone who lives in the housing-unit)

Just in case things aren't confused enough....

Tom in Colo

Yes this is true Tom, but you also have to count what the roommate puts towards expenses, so basically a person who has a wealthy roommate will not have any expenses that they can count, and will also have full rent, food, car, utilities, entertainment, healthcare, etc that the roommate pays for count as income. This will make most people in this situation fail the means test and have positive income on the expense schedules each month.

[Beeheery]

Hi Back,
What I don't understand is how would me living in a homeless shelter for 6 months prior to filing (recommended to me by a lawyer) be any different than the situation I am in now. I would have everything covered (housing/food/etc) but instead of being on someone's couch in their place, I'd be in a shelter with a ton of other people. It would be the same situation would it not? I don't see how doing that makes me eligible to file Ch. 7 but crashing on someone's couch disqualifies me. Sigh....will be calling another lawyer today I guess.

[BCA2009]

You have a household of 1.

You guys are making this way too complicated. Based on the info that has been given, having no income, Beheery would easily pass the means test. Beheery doesn't need the roommate added to his household size to qualify. It would be more complicated if it were the other way around. If the roommate WITH income were tryiong to file and needed the non filing roommate to get under the median.

In this case it doesn't matter. List the household size as 1. List your income (zero)on line 3. On line 8 of the means test list as income all of the expenses that your roomate contributes your household. Rent, utilities, etc. This is your income.

On the expense side list your protion of the expenses (the same number as above).

This would be no different than if this same friend rented you a seperate apartment and paid all of your expenses. He is gifting you money that you pay your utilities with.

You need to look for more attorneys or file pro se.