Worried

[drowning123]

Question. I'm in New York. $900 over median, but negative $53 DMI. Can I still qualify for Chapter 7? Attorney advised me to not disclose child support, which would push me way over median.

[drowning123]

Worried. . . 2

Also forgot to mention. Filing this month. Thanks.

[SMinGA]

Your atty is advising you to hide income? Find a new attorney!!

When you calculate your DMI at -$53, are all the expenses reasonable and can you document them? Anything that cannot or should not be counted in a ch. 7? (Like student loan payments, 401k payments?)

Your expenses are important in determining whether or not you can do a 7. Being over median in income means your case might get a little additional scrutiny, but if your expenses check out then you should not have a problem. (Note - you should not be counting unsecured debt payments that you will stop with the bankruptcy.)

[wonderingrov]

I would suggest getting a 2nd opinion on the issue of not listing the child support. Something seems wrong there - although I'm not sure quite what reasoning the lawyer is using. As SMinGA pointed out, hiding income is not a good thing.

[drowning123]

Well, he said to mention it, but pretend like the child's father stopped paying me. I have no 401K loans nor student loans. Yes, expenses can be documented.

[drowning123]

Your atty is advising you to hide income? Find a new attorney!!

When you calculate your DMI at -$53, are all the expenses reasonable and can you document them? Anything that cannot or should not be counted in a ch. 7? (Like student loan payments, 401k payments?)

Your expenses are important in determining whether or not you can do a 7. Being over median in income means your case might get a little additional scrutiny, but if your expenses check out then you should not have a problem. (Note - you should not be counting unsecured debt payments that you will stop with the bankruptcy.)

Crap! I was counting payday loans. Oh boy. Chapter 13 it is I guess.

[SMinGA]

An atty telling you to lie on your bankruptcy petition = problem. Have you paid this person? Do you have anything in writing (I doubt it) regarding this advice. I am fairly certain that if/when the trustee reviews your bank statements, etc. and sees this income - the atty is going to act like he has no idea what you're talking about.

If your expenses are legitimate - then go in honestly. And before filing, look thru and make sure all is accounted for. I see in other posts you have high transit costs, plus car payment so I assume insurance and a little for gas, oil changes and such. Have you covered medical out of pocket (copays, over the counter medicine and such), personal care items/hair cuts, clothes/shoes/etc. for yourself & the kids, school supplies, postage/banking fees, a modest amount for entertainment, etc. Think about all you need to spend in a year, make sure its accounted for in your budget.

Well, he said to mention it, but pretend like the child's father stopped paying me. I have no 401K loans nor student loans. Yes, expenses can be documented.

[SMinGA]

You can't count them since you won't be paying them any longer. Sounds like you may need to do a couple more consults with attys.

Ch. 13 is not horrible. The important thing: make sure that all of your expenses are accounted for. Even the little things add up.

If you'd care to post your expenses here (utilities, insurance, groceries, etc. etc. etc.) perhaps someone can help you spot things you may be overlooking?

Crap! I was counting payday loans. Oh boy. Chapter 13 it is I guess.

[drowning123]

You can't count them since you won't be paying them any longer. Sounds like you may need to do a couple more consults with attys.

Ch. 13 is not horrible. The important thing: make sure that all of your expenses are accounted for. Even the little things add up.

If you'd care to post your expenses here (utilities, insurance, groceries, etc. etc. etc.) perhaps someone can help you spot things you may be overlooking?

Mortgage is 1927/month
HELOC is 650
Auto is 370/month
Payday loans are 1300/month
Utilities are 1000/month (Heating costs, garbage disposal, cable (triple))
Entertainment is 120/month
Clothing is 300/month
Fuel for car, traveling expenses to work, etc. are 600/month
Medical Insurance - 320
Car Insurance - 66
Home Insurance - 79
Groceries 400/month
Total Expenses (with payday loans) - 7132
Total Expenses (without payday loans) - 5832

Gross monthly income 5857
Child Support 774
Total income 6631

DMI (with payday loans) is -$501 (off a little by what I submitted to attorney)
DMI (without payday loans) is $799.

My take home pay is $4110 (appx.)

Eureka! I may have discovered expenses I didn't include. In any event. What are my chances for qualifying for Chapter 7? Thanks.

[keepinitreal]

Check your bank statements/checkbook registers to verify your food/groceries/restaurants. It seems low, especially if you have one or more children.

[newbie2]

Mortgage is 1927/month
HELOC is 650
Auto is 370/month
Payday loans are 1300/month
Utilities are 1000/month (Heating costs, garbage disposal, cable (triple))
Entertainment is 120/month
Clothing is 300/month
Fuel for car, traveling expenses to work, etc. are 600/month
Medical Insurance - 320
Car Insurance - 66
Home Insurance - 79
Groceries 400/month
Total Expenses (with payday loans) - 7132
Total Expenses (without payday loans) - 5832

Gross monthly income 5857
Child Support 774
Total income 6631

DMI (with payday loans) is -$501 (off a little by what I submitted to attorney)
DMI (without payday loans) is $799.

My take home pay is $4110 (appx.)

Eureka! I may have discovered expenses I didn't include. In any event. What are my chances for qualifying for Chapter 7? Thanks.

I don't see where your taxes are deducted from your gross income. (Unless you mean your take home pay is your earnings without child support.)

[drowning123]

Yes, take home pay is without child support.

[SMinGA]

OK...

On expenses, groceries seems low unless you get some sort of assistance on that or you're a really small/frugal household. Especially if this includes all the other stuff we need from the grocery store... Personal care items like soap, shampoo, toothpaste, feminine products, etc. Household needs like light bulbs, paper towels, toilet paper, cleaning supplies. Laundry supplies.

You indicated home insurance, what about property taxes? Are they included in your mortgage?

Clothing of $300/mo seems high, though this may include some dry cleaning/laundry supply expense?

Overall I'm guessing you need to increase groceries and/or break it down into groceries (food), personal care items, and household needs. The personal care & household needs may not be huge amounts, but at least $50-75 for each area is probably reasonable. Again, depends on family size.

Any daycare expenses? Or if the kids are older, school expenses? Supplies can easily be $15-25 a month, and that is if you're lucky!

On the house - what is it worth? More or less than what you owe on the first?

[momofthree]

How many kids do you have? Your groceries seems low, clothing seems a bit high depending on household size. If your take-home pay is only $4110 + $774 child support (total of $4884) and your expenses (not including medical as I assume that's a payroll ded.) total $5512, and you are planning to keep your home, then you should be fine.

Do you normally get a tax refund? Your deductions seem really high for a single mom (and homeowner) at over $1400 a month not including medical insurance. If you normally get a refund, they will have you adjust your withholdings to increase your monthly paycheck, but even that probably still won't be enough to push you into a ch.13.

I also don't see any out-of-pocket medical expenses listed. Per IRS standards, you are allowed $60/mo for each household member.

Some of your expenses may be questioned--utilities are very high, entertainment, transportation, etc. but if you're far enough in the negative, they probably won't even bother to object. Be sure to boost up your grocery expenses--this will help to offset other expenses.

[SMinGA]

ps-you calculate DMI from net income, not gross. You seem to be counting it on gross as if you did not have payroll deductions, etc. Your total net, including child support, is under $5k right now and your expenses (without payday loans) is above that. (Guessing you still need to add to your expense list for items you left out.) Seems clear you do not have DMI for a plan payment.

I don't think you'll have trouble w/ the expenses you have listed. $600 may seem high for transportation, but you indicated before that almost $400 of that is for mass transit. Plus some gas, routine maintenance, tag renewal and such. And $120/entertainment may be high - but lowering it to $75-85 won't change your overall situation.