Reaffirm w/ Ford in VA - Attorney Says NO

[Charlie777]

AlmostAmos, I don't know what you can do now. My understanding is that you cannot file a reaffirmation once the case is discharged. I don't know whether you would want to ask your attorney to reopen it, since you probably won't get a reaffirmation approved and are likely to lose the car in the end.

Fortunately my attorney told me Ford would repossess, in my case it was a bit more complex because the Ford loan was on a car my ex-wife received in our divorce settlement, and I was required to pay off the loan by the divorce decree. I made the final payment while my case was pending, and was able to get Ford to remove the IIB reporting (the filing stated I was required to pay by the divorce and it would not be discharged, but would not reaffirm) and report it as a "paid as agreed" loan. Subsequently I was able to finance a replacement vehicle for my Toyota (see below) on decent terms (competitive rate, lower down payment than my credit union) with Ford Credit.

I have more bad feelings about Toyota Finance. They appeared to be honoring my "drive through" as they continued accepting payments and reporting current payments on my lease. Five months later they reported the lease as "IIB" with a date of 4/2010, which set my score recovery back bigtime. They claimed they were never notified of the BK (their credit reporting address was on the list of creditors, they made an account maintenance inquiry against my credit while the filing was open). They wound up repoing without notice, towing the car away from my apartment complex while I was on a business trip, using a disreputable towing company that stole my GPS and charged me to obtain return of my other contents (I say disreputable because I was annoyed enough to file a police report, the officer who took the report gave me the impression that company frequently draws that sort of complaint).

[AlmostAmos]

Update - My attorney called me first thing & told me they CANNOT do this in our district & the judges have ruled on this numerous times. He told me that he needs a name/number of who put this order out so he can put a stop to it. So, I had to call Ford.

I got an absolutely worthless POS on the phone from Ford & explained the entire situation to her. No apologies, no "oh geez", nothing. Obviously, they support these actions by their POS repo people. I told her my attorney wants names/numbers/etc. & she told me to contact the attorney who represented them in the BK case. Would NOT give me the name/number of the attorney. She cocked an attitude with me & said "we are going to repo it", "our attorneys have made the decision because your attorney refused to sign the reaffirmation".

Pissed.

[keepinitreal]

I have more bad feelings about Toyota Finance. They appeared to be honoring my "drive through" as they continued accepting payments and reporting current payments on my lease. Five months later they reported the lease as "IIB" with a date of 4/2010, which set my score recovery back bigtime. They claimed they were never notified of the BK (their credit reporting address was on the list of creditors, they made an account maintenance inquiry against my credit while the filing was open). They wound up repoing without notice, towing the car away from my apartment complex while I was on a business trip, using a disreputable towing company that stole my GPS and charged me to obtain return of my other contents (I say disreputable because I was annoyed enough to file a police report, the officer who took the report gave me the impression that company frequently draws that sort of complaint).

Charlie777, did you remain current with your Toyota lease payments after you realized your credit report was dinged by them because of their adding "IIB 04/10"?

[debee]

Update - My attorney called me first thing & told me they CANNOT do this in our district & the judges have ruled on this numerous times.

Maybe your attorney hasn't read anything since BAPCPA. Keep us posted.

eta: Found this tidbit re: repo in VA. "Unless otherwise agreed, and subject to other laws which may apply, secured party has, on default, the right to take possession of the collateral. In taking possession secured party may proceed without judicial process only if this can be done without breach of the peace. If not, a legal action may proceed'See Code of Virginia Section 8.9-503. Bk Code has you in default, but will VA state law?

[keepinitreal]

Charlie777, did you remain current with your Toyota lease payments after you realized your credit report was dinged by them because of their adding "IIB 04/10"?

Never mind, I looked back and saw that you stopped paying on the car lease in May and they repo'd it a couple of months later.

[AlmostAmos]

End of Day 1 Update - NOTHING to report. MY attorney was in meetings all morning & court this afternoon. I called 3x but didn't get any status updates. I don't know if he even called Ford's attorney or not. Ford will have to take me to court & get a court order to force me to give it over voluntarily. From what I found out today, I could string it out for quite a while (like 60 days). So, until I have 1) an order from the BK court barring them from taking it or 2) a letter from Ford/their attorneys guaranteeing me that it will not be repo'd - it will stay barricaded in. This should be fun.

My guess - I bet I'll have to get a different attorney before this is all over. My current is not responsive enough & is not much of a bulldog IMHO. He seems very knowledgeable about BK process & he was a trustee for 10+ years. Ugh.

[oregonpilot]

AlAm WOW I've been reading about your night time "visitors"
If that had been me, someone would have had to call an ambulance. Not for them but for me.
And i thought the repo dudes on TV were bad.

[AlmostAmos]

Day 2 Update - I called my attorney's office this morning for an update. My attorney has called Ford's attorney (the one who represented them in our BK case) 2 times and has NOT received a return phone call from them. I asked the legal assistant about getting the BK judge involved & she said I need to talk to the attorney about it first thing tomorrow morning if I don't hear from them before. I'm not satisfied.

What would you all do? Call the judge yourself? Tell your attorney that you want to try to re-open the case & file a reaffirmation (that will be rejected)? Ugh.

[clevelandmom]

Hi AlmostAmos,
The one thing I would be absolutely sure to do is to start writing letters. I would write a completely detailed letter to your attorney, and send a "courtesy copy" to the Judge. Let the attorney and the Judge know that even though YOU were well-versed in what the current law states, apparently the attorney was not. The attorney assured you, on MANY occasions, that "everything would be okay and you don't need to file the reaffirmation with the court." (Did they tell you this via email? If so, attach the emails to your letter as exhibits). Tell them about how the thugs nearly killed you by way of heart attack by banging on your door at 10:30 at night. Keep in mind - this attorney assured you everything would be okay, and now he is in a position where he needs to prove himself right! This is the first thing I would do. . .but IN THE MEANTIME. . . you may want to start calling around to see if you can't find another attorney who might appreciate cases like this and want to take this one on. Yes, I realize the last thing you want is more attorney fees - but right now you need help. Call the State Bar and see if they can recommend someone. Best of luck my friend.

[wnguyen]

Keeping the car and while making all payments without a reaffirmation s called a "Drive Through" and whether you can avoid repossession is very dependent on your local BK rules and Judge. Ford Credit (and Toyota as well) takes the position that their contract sets Bankruptcy as an "event of default", and they assert the right to repossess even if you are current on the loan and maintaining insurance. Once the automatic stay is lifted, I understand that Ford is likely to try to repossess. I also understand attorney's (including mine) hate to see clients reaffirm debt unless the borrower gets something in return, and the reaffirmed loan truly makes sense from the standpoint of the debtor's budget etc. I was initially frustrated by this but in hindsight it was best for me.

Hopefully your attorney has a lot of experience practicing in the local court where you filed and he knows what you can do, and what the judge will tolerate. So should Ford's local attorney.

With the bold part above, I agree that Ford will repo but Toyota, I beg to differ. At least in my case, I didn't reaffirm and they WON'T take my car away. They told me so and so did my attorney. I don't know if they had the same policy like Ford in the past but as of now, they won't if you're current. However, one thing they, Toyota Financial, upset me was that they told me that if keep making payments on time, then I don't need the reaffirmation and a week later they sent my lawyer the paperwork. I still keep it here with me even I'm more than a month discharged.

[telco95]

Sorry to hear about your situation. I was discharged on 10/25/10 and I am also doing a ride through with a sub-prime lender. I told my attorney that I wanted to reaffirm because I feared a repo, she said that she would contact the lender. Our attorney said that they never received anything. I was discharged 5 days after you, I hope they don't, but if they do, I would like a phone call 1st. Keep us posted and Good Luck!

[debee]

Any news, Amos? Hope you're hanging in there alright.

[Pandora]

Good lord - what a nightmare! Sorry you're going through this Amos - and FWIW..I would've fired a warning shot! There is no way in hell someone would've walked onto our property let alone banging on doors and putting lights inside our house without being met with the barrel of a gun. Nope.. nada...no how.. no way. Well.. I take that back..if it was a Police Officer and I knew that, then thats a different story Otherwise...hello stranger, meet the uncles Smith & Wesson and brothers Ruger and Remington

[AlmostAmos]

Day 3 Update 1 - I'm ready to explode! I called this morning & had to leave a voicemail for my attorney as he "stepped out for a bit". I left a stern voicemail for him & told him that I want something done & if he can't/is not going to do something then I want to know who I can contact. I told him I want the judge involved. Of course, I don't feel he will do anything @ this point. He's got turkey on his mind I'm sure.

I called the court just a few minutes ago to find out HOW I can go about contacting the judge/his clerk/etc., about my case. The lady who answered the phone ("case administrator") told me there is no process in place to contact the judge directly and that I would have to go through the attorney that represented me during my case - or a new one if he/she was not willing to help me with this. How pathetic is that?!

I'm looking for an email address for the judge & am going to send a letter to him if I can find an address. HELP?

[clevelandmom]

Mr. AlmostAmos,
Breathe my friend. I know you're hot as hell and you have every right to be. . .but breathe. . . . .
First, it's Thanksgiving weekend. Chances are the courts will be closed for the weekend after today. I highly doubt you will be able to contact the judge via email because even I can't contact them via email and I work at a law firm. If I were in your predicament, I would write a letter and send it OVERNIGHT to the court. It will get there on Friday, but the Judge won't get it until Monday. Send the letter to the court, ATTN: JUDGE SO AND SO, and check to see when it was delivered. I know you're mad as hell but with the Holiday there is nothing you can do. In the meantime, I would keep the car baracaded (or even remove the tires, like you said), and just sit tight and do your best to enjoy the long weekend. I'm not sure there's much more you can do right now. Other than drink. . . a lot. . . . try to have a Happy Thanksgiving. We're thinking of you. . .