Internet - Cell Phone - DirecTV - on Means Test???

[gman]

Scenario:

* I do NOT have bundled services through one provider. I actually have 3 different companies/bills.

* I do NOT have a landline

* My monthly cell phone for 2 lines (my 10 year old son and me) is $144 combined. This comes to $72 for mine and $72 for his for unlimited talk, text, web. I have custody and my ex has visitation - so hopefully the son's line is seen as necessary.

* Our Internet bill is $50/mo.

* Our DirecTV bill is $65/mo.

Questions:

* What do I put on line 37 of the Means Test and (if possible) please explain why?

* Should I be putting anything on any other line of the Means Test given these bills above?

* Is it "OK" to claim LESS than the above amounts and avoid having a Trustee object? If so, what might one put down as lower amounts?

I don't want to double dip but at the same time want to claim all I can.

Thanks in advance.

[SMinGA]

Those things won't go on the means test as far as I know. But they will go on schedule J where your actual expenses go. My atty lumps these together under other as 'telecommunications' and then breaks them down. As to what your trustee may argue against - that is hard to say. But $144 for cell service seems high, unless perhaps you don't have a landline? Might want to check with your provider and see if a less $ plan will fit you. (I have Sprint, one function on their website is to run a comparison of your plan vs. usage and see if you're paying for services you don't need.)

[gman]

Those things won't go on the means test as far as I know. But they will go on schedule J where your actual expenses go. My atty lumps these together under other as 'telecommunications' and then breaks them down. As to what your trustee may argue against - that is hard to say. But $144 for cell service seems high, unless perhaps you don't have a landline? Might want to check with your provider and see if a less $ plan will fit you. (I have Sprint, one function on their website is to run a comparison of your plan vs. usage and see if you're paying for services you don't need.)

Question: Then what is Line 37 on the Means Test used for? I cannot imagine it is zero.

Comment: I do not have a landline. Our household has 2 cell phones as detailed in my original post above.

[momofthree]

Line 37 is left at $0 unless your home ENERGY costs (heating, cooling, lights) are over the IRS standards. A cell phone is not a valid home energy cost.

I've been under the impression that the "misc" expense in the IRS standard living expense is to cover things like cell phones, entertainment, home maintenance, etc on the means test. For a household of 2, the IRS standard living expense is $985 and covers food, clothing, personal care, housekeeping supplies, & misc. expenses.

[gman]

Line 37 is left at $0 unless your home ENERGY costs (heating, cooling, lights) are over the IRS standards. A cell phone is not a valid home energy cost.

I've been under the impression that the "misc" expense in the IRS standard living expense is to cover things like cell phones, entertainment, home maintenance, etc on the means test. For a household of 2, the IRS standard living expense is $985 and covers food, clothing, personal care, housekeeping supplies, & misc. expenses.

Sorry - I meant LINE 32 - TELECOMMUNICATIONS

[Pandora]

our trustee allowed our costs of both landline and cell phones; landline is $70 a month and 3 cell phones are $149, respectively - not a peep from the trustee. Our lawyer did ask if we needed both land and cell, we said yes we did, and that was it - no other questions. As far as internet and TV - that wasnt questioned either and ours are both satelite services (only thing we have out here); Internet is $65 and TV is $78.

[gman]

our trustee allowed our costs of both landline and cell phones; landline is $70 a month and 3 cell phones are $149, respectively - not a peep from the trustee. Our lawyer did ask if we needed both land and cell, we said yes we did, and that was it - no other questions. As far as internet and TV - that wasnt questioned either and ours are both satelite services (only thing we have out here); Internet is $65 and TV is $78.

Glad to hear things are going well.

It appears from your post that you did not qualify for a Chapter 7 using the Means Test (Form B22A.)

My question is specific to the allocation of expenses on the Means Test only.

Does anyone have experience with how this would be handled on that form?

[tcreegan]

line 56?

Just reading the form, it does seem odd that the wording specifically excludes cell phone and landline phone service.....but allows for additional phone services such as pagers, caller ID, internet,

The wording seems archaic, maybe it just hasn't been updated to reflect the modern world.......

How about putting cell phones on the catch-all, line 56?

Tom in Colo

[Pandora]

Glad to hear things are going well.

It appears from your post that you did not qualify for a Chapter 7 using the Means Test (Form B22A.)

My question is specific to the allocation of expenses on the Means Test only.

Does anyone have experience with how this would be handled on that form?

Actually we did qualify for a Ch. 7 but opted for a 13 for other reasons, however it shouldnt matter for claiming those expenses I dont believe.

[gman]

bump....

does anyone have more insights on how to handle these 3 expenses on the Means Test?

[tobee43]

i believe it's clumped together with your utilities with your monthly expenditures ....as with the schedule j it is broken down to actually be listed as "telephone".

that can't judge or determine whether your server is charging you too much...as a fact if you did not have excellent credit your monthly charges may be somewhat higher than someone who got there cell phone when they had a credit score of 800.

you most likely will not be able to change your service that easily at this point, however, it may be worth a try. i know not only did we have over an 800 when we purchased our cell service, but additionally, because that server was one of my husband's accounts we got an additional 20% off the bill and it still runs us approx $110 a month...NOT including the amount we were paying for a land line...so i don't think the courts would find your amount unreasonable...and as far as means test...just add up all your each utility and list it accordingly.

Filed Consumer Chapter 7 4/16/2010
341 meeting 6/2010
No-asset distribution report filed 8/4/2010
Discharged 8/4/2010

[sunshinepa]

I would be a bit concerned on the cell bill......would a trustee really believe that a 10 yr old needs to spend 72 a month for cell? Just a thought, although I guess unless it's questioned, he would not be mentioned.

Just a thought!

[gman]

My #1 concern with the 3 charges is literally on which LINE(S) of the Means Test (only) these would be entered?

My Schedule I and J should be fine because I am currently unemployed and am only receiving unemployment income. Said a different way - I should sail through Schedules I and J given my current situation.

It is the MEANS TEST that worries me, specifically the last 6 months of disposable income and expenses.

There is a LINE 32 for TELECOMMUNICATION COSTS on the Means Test.

There is also a LINE 20A for UTILITIES.

Where do I put???

1. DirecTV

2. Cell phone (especially since it is my only phone.)

3. Internet

Every penny of legitimate expenses will come into play in my scenario, so your answers help me significantly.

Thanks.

[ccsjoe]

From what I understand none of the items you meantion above are considered utilities. Cell phone and Internet definitely go on the Telecomm line, cable nto sure but makes sense to go there too.

[Maine]

Cell phone is considered the same as land line...a utility and as such are part of the irs standard number on line 20A

Internet is in telcom on line 32

Cable/direct tv does not really have a line on the means test. It is either part of the irs standard on line 20A or just not there. (I would not try to put it in box 21 either.) It is not an expense necessary for the education/welfare of the family. It is allowed on schedule J, just not as an additional expense on the means test.

Hope that helps a little.