Hi. I'm a newly registered member. I thought I'd be posting a few questions today on the thornier forms and then be able to file Chapter 7 next week but it appears that I may have miscalculated my income on the means test I did a month back -- today's calculations show me as being about $700 over the yearly median income for a one-person family in my state.
My situation is this. After a period of being out of work in another state, I was forced to file Chapter 13 (having found a job again) when the creditor on my credit cards refused to grant me a payment plan. The Chapter 13 was filed just a few months before I returned to a prior state of residence; I had to fly back for the hearing. This was in late 2008 to early 2009.
My financial circumstances immediately changed after the move -- less money -- but I continued with the payment plan until late 2009. Since I am not a homeowner I was also getting kicked around in the rental market so had to move a few times and still might have to move again depending on what the owners of my current residence do. Also expensive.
Anyway, I fell behind with the third move or so and then got laid off in February 2010. The trustee dismissed my case (no six-month rule should apply since it was dismissed for lack of payment alone) in the other state before I knew about it. (I trusted that an old friend would tell me when the PO Box she'd allowed me to use was no longer an option, but she did not and I lost control of things.)
I'm in another state so I concluded based on a few attorney contacts that I should just file as Chapter 7 and move on. It seemed like conversion was not an option since I am in another state and since the case was dismissed. Not to mention the fact that I am loathe to have anything to do with that bunch of attorneys again anyway.
QUESTION: Am I right in thinking that conversion is only an option when you have an open case and not a dismissed case?
QUESTION: Am I right in thinking that moving to another state limited my option to convert? (I wish my attorneys would have advised me better here but then, had it been feasible to change attorneys before the filing, I would have at least done that since they gave careless advice, were nasty, made a big stink when I wanted to think about the Chapter 13 paperwork overnight before signing -- even claiming that no one had ever hesitated to sign in the past, sent my paperwork to a complete stranger unknown to me, and so on.)
Okay, sorry for the venting. This is my first post and I guess I can't help it a bit.
Given the whole situation, when I examined my filing copy of the Chapter 13 paperwork and saw how many of the forms were duplicates, I realized I would be comfortable in going pro se for the Chapter 7 filing.
But I just ran the numbers, as I said, and I'm about $700 over the median for my state.
What I did was this, having checked the Nolo book and having looked on one or two other good sites. I added up the gross income I made in January and February before being laid off. The entire gross amount. I added to it, the unemployment income that I have been living on since being laid off, some $9900 (my state generously provides unemployment that you can sort of live off of). That was six months.
Then I divided by 6.
The monthly was over $4000. Multiplying by 12 got me above the $51,000+ or so that my state allows as a median income for one.
QUESTION: That's it, right? I'm doing the means test right? I think before that I averaged the high amount and the lower amount (the monthly unemployment) before multiplying by 12. But today it looks like that was wrong.
If so, then it looks like I need to wait until August to file and take six months previous from February to July to use for the means test. If my understanding is correct, a month means the end of a month -- not every four to five weeks depending on when in the month you want to file.
If I was able to convert from the Chapter 13, it looks like I would have already had the option to file since it sounds like you don't have to do the means test.
But I don't think I could without reopening the 13 and getting the support of the trustee and attorneys in the old state for a conversion. QUESTION: Does this sound like a reasonable assumption?
I'm pretty sure an attorney would be required to jump through all those hoops. And when I look at the copyright of the bankruptcy form software on the pages of my old filing and consider the lack of interest and care shown by the attorneys I used in the other state, I just can't see going that route until I have to. I'm not poor enough to get out of filing fees so if I can't convert, I have to spend $300 while on unemployment to file -- I can't pay attorney fees again on top of that.
Well, the username I chose is "empowered" but right now I'm feeling pretty disenfranchised. No use with asking any questions about individual forms until I figure out what to do about this means test obstacle.
QUESTION: Can anyone tell me if the assumptions I'm making are correct?
Sorry for the long post. I guess venting is unavoidable in situations like this. If I had it to do again, I would not trust my attorney to know what I need to know and to properly look out for my interests. I would learn as much as possible about bankruptcy so that I could appraise the work my attorneys did. For whatever it's worth, this is all I can give in return for advice that you have for me.
Thank you.
(dis)empowered
My situation is this. After a period of being out of work in another state, I was forced to file Chapter 13 (having found a job again) when the creditor on my credit cards refused to grant me a payment plan. The Chapter 13 was filed just a few months before I returned to a prior state of residence; I had to fly back for the hearing. This was in late 2008 to early 2009.
My financial circumstances immediately changed after the move -- less money -- but I continued with the payment plan until late 2009. Since I am not a homeowner I was also getting kicked around in the rental market so had to move a few times and still might have to move again depending on what the owners of my current residence do. Also expensive.
Anyway, I fell behind with the third move or so and then got laid off in February 2010. The trustee dismissed my case (no six-month rule should apply since it was dismissed for lack of payment alone) in the other state before I knew about it. (I trusted that an old friend would tell me when the PO Box she'd allowed me to use was no longer an option, but she did not and I lost control of things.)
I'm in another state so I concluded based on a few attorney contacts that I should just file as Chapter 7 and move on. It seemed like conversion was not an option since I am in another state and since the case was dismissed. Not to mention the fact that I am loathe to have anything to do with that bunch of attorneys again anyway.
QUESTION: Am I right in thinking that conversion is only an option when you have an open case and not a dismissed case?
QUESTION: Am I right in thinking that moving to another state limited my option to convert? (I wish my attorneys would have advised me better here but then, had it been feasible to change attorneys before the filing, I would have at least done that since they gave careless advice, were nasty, made a big stink when I wanted to think about the Chapter 13 paperwork overnight before signing -- even claiming that no one had ever hesitated to sign in the past, sent my paperwork to a complete stranger unknown to me, and so on.)
Okay, sorry for the venting. This is my first post and I guess I can't help it a bit.
Given the whole situation, when I examined my filing copy of the Chapter 13 paperwork and saw how many of the forms were duplicates, I realized I would be comfortable in going pro se for the Chapter 7 filing.
But I just ran the numbers, as I said, and I'm about $700 over the median for my state.
What I did was this, having checked the Nolo book and having looked on one or two other good sites. I added up the gross income I made in January and February before being laid off. The entire gross amount. I added to it, the unemployment income that I have been living on since being laid off, some $9900 (my state generously provides unemployment that you can sort of live off of). That was six months.
Then I divided by 6.
The monthly was over $4000. Multiplying by 12 got me above the $51,000+ or so that my state allows as a median income for one.
QUESTION: That's it, right? I'm doing the means test right? I think before that I averaged the high amount and the lower amount (the monthly unemployment) before multiplying by 12. But today it looks like that was wrong.
If so, then it looks like I need to wait until August to file and take six months previous from February to July to use for the means test. If my understanding is correct, a month means the end of a month -- not every four to five weeks depending on when in the month you want to file.
If I was able to convert from the Chapter 13, it looks like I would have already had the option to file since it sounds like you don't have to do the means test.
But I don't think I could without reopening the 13 and getting the support of the trustee and attorneys in the old state for a conversion. QUESTION: Does this sound like a reasonable assumption?
I'm pretty sure an attorney would be required to jump through all those hoops. And when I look at the copyright of the bankruptcy form software on the pages of my old filing and consider the lack of interest and care shown by the attorneys I used in the other state, I just can't see going that route until I have to. I'm not poor enough to get out of filing fees so if I can't convert, I have to spend $300 while on unemployment to file -- I can't pay attorney fees again on top of that.
Well, the username I chose is "empowered" but right now I'm feeling pretty disenfranchised. No use with asking any questions about individual forms until I figure out what to do about this means test obstacle.
QUESTION: Can anyone tell me if the assumptions I'm making are correct?
Sorry for the long post. I guess venting is unavoidable in situations like this. If I had it to do again, I would not trust my attorney to know what I need to know and to properly look out for my interests. I would learn as much as possible about bankruptcy so that I could appraise the work my attorneys did. For whatever it's worth, this is all I can give in return for advice that you have for me.
Thank you.
(dis)empowered
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