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My meeting with the new attorney went fantastic

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    My meeting with the new attorney went fantastic

    My current attorney tells me that I'm very close to a chapter 7 but would rather do a chapter 13. So, after being on the forum for a few days and doing lots of reading, I make several appointments with other attorneys.

    Yesterday afternoon, I met with an attorney and gave him my means test along with all my schedules that the current lawyer gave me. He uses the same software the current attorney uses and said that while we don't pass the income test, our other expenses could be explained. He says that he hates doing chapter 13 because he says that the success rate almost makes the plan a failure to the debtors (in his eyes). He said that if anything we will get questioned on the entertainment but since my daycare is going to be close to $1,000 a month, and our mortgage is so dang high, he doesn't see the trustees huffing and puffing too much about it. He said if worse comes to worse after he plays with the numbers, we wait 2 months to file.

    And, our current attorney told us not to do anything on the summons we received from citicard. Well, this attorney told me he would contact the law firm and tell them we're about a week away from filing a chapter 7 and since he knows the attorney, he doesn't think it should be a problem to stop him from getting an default judgement because based on when I was served and what he knows of this attorney, he doesn't think the attorney's office has gone to the courthouse yet. And, even if he did, they have a good enough relationship where he can talk the attorney out of it.

    So, all in all I feel more comfortable knowing that I trusted my instincts. He said he would get back to me by middle of next week on when we can come down and sign the paperwork and pay him to file the 7.

    Oh and he said that to pray that I don't get the woman trustee because apparently she's very very hard to work with. But I asked him several times if he saw any issues at all with us filing a chapter 7. He said that the numbers look okay and nothing was glaring at him as to expenses except for the food, which I could explain with medical notes, rx from pharmacy, etc and the entertainment. But he said with an active family of 5 he's seen that number be higher and the trustee didn't question. He also said, "so what if the trustee questioned those expenses? We have an explanation for it and he would go to bat for us."

    All in all, I feel better. So how do I go about firing the first attorney?

    #2
    if I were you - I'd get another opinion - make it 3 and see what the "neutral third attorney" says, without you giving any information regarding your visit with your first 2.

    In my mind, when 2 attorney's differentiate so vastly on something as important as this - get another opinion to validate one of the other two

    Comment


      #3
      Forgot to mention, I did call another attorney and spent quite some time on the phone with him on Thursday. He said I was *so close* and he didn't see any issues with filing a 7 either based on the figures I gave him over the phone. He's the one that also suggested waiting 2 months to file.

      Both this attorney and the one I saw yesterday had 30+ years of experience.

      My current attorney has about 20 years of experience but his main focus isn't bankruptcy law.

      Also, apparently there were some errors on the forms from current attorney that yesterday's attorney found. Boxes checked when they shouldn't be checked.

      Comment


        #4
        Hmm - well - I'd want to know what their definition of "so close" is - is it a few dollars or a few thousand dollars? Kind of like horseshoes - so close doesnt count unless you hit the peg, ya know?

        Have you run the test yourself? Have you filed out "mock" schedules i & j?

        I'd run all the numbers and see where I was at - and find out what "so close" means. I would however, do exactly as they stated, and wait if thats what bringing you "so close". I liken it sort of to us stripping our 2nd mortgage - so close doesnt cut it, it has to be under the value of the 1st to be able to do it, even $1 over and we wouldnt be able to strip the 2nd off. Talk about "so close"!

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          #5
          so when I look at schedule j it shows average monthly income of $6052.43 and average monthly expenses of $7,807.71 and the next line is -1,755.28.

          Comment


            #6
            On the means test that he did for me, it shows disposable income of $173.22. This is before where day care expenses were only $690 per month. Now that they've gone up to $1,000 we pass the means test.

            Comment


              #7
              I found the means test online at www.legalconsumer.com and when I did it with updated daycare expenses, it shows that I'm $-223. This is without even me adjusting my huge grocery bill and using all the IRS standard deductions with our current six month income.

              So presumably, I shouldn't have to wait the 2 months?

              Comment


                #8
                the means tests is just part of it... its the actual schedules that make up the other part.

                You can find them on the us justice website. I posted them last night for someone else, look under my posts (I'm too lazy to do it) LOL

                Comment


                  #9
                  Go for the Ch 7; go with the atty that seems aggressive, especially if he has a bk practice, where your initial atty doesn't appear to be specialized in the field. I had a bunch (like 5) attys tell me that I HAD to file a 13. I really felt there was a chance of a 7, and I dreaded being under the thumb of the trustee for 5 years. My case was on the edge and kinda rough for a non-asset case...but with an aggressive atty it all worked out. Yes, I had a few restless nights waiting to see how things would go. Worst case, I'd have flipped to a 13 if forced to. But I'm oh so glad I fought out the 7.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Keep in mind, the online means tests are not that great. Yes, they are the means test, but YOU, don't really know the ins and outs of how to do it. Keep in mind, if your only negative a little bit, the trustee doesn't require much to push it the other way. But yes, if you are close, you will want an attorney that will push the envelope.
                    Last edited by HHM; 07-04-2010, 09:03 AM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by HHM View Post
                      Keep in mind, the online means tests are not that great. Yes, they are the means test, but YOU, don't really know the ins and outs of how to do it. Keep in mind, if your only negative bit a little bit, the trustee doesn't require much to push it the other way. But yes, if you are close, you will want an attorney that will push the envelope.
                      Understood. I have a copy of my current means test that showed me over by 175. And when I did the calculator on line, I used the same numbers my attorney did with the exception of the daycare.

                      I feel better with the 2nd attorney because he seemed like he would push the envelope.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        That was kind of our situation as well. We interviewed 4 attorney's in total. One said we had a slam dunk 7, two said we only would qualify for a 13 and they wouldn't even entertain a 7 even though our means test showed a small negative DMI when I ran it, and one, the one we went with, said we'd qualify for a 7, it was tight, but not impossible, and we had some extenuating circumstances which he could argue that we would not be successful in a 13. As others have said here, and I didn't believe it until it happened to me, when you meet the right lawyer something just clicks. I liked they way he explained things and I had a feeling he'd fight for the right thing for my family and I. The case was filed in late June and we have an early August 341.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Sounds like the 2nd attorney is the way to go! Keep us posted on your progress....
                          Filed Chapter 13 on 2-28-10. 341 completed 4/14/10. Confirmed 5/14/10. Lien strip granted 2/2/11
                          0% payback to unsecured creditors, 56 payments down, 4 to go....

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I would go with the second attorney. I know there are some comments about "BK Mills" but there's no substitute for a specialist who practices all the time before the court you're going to file in, and has encountered all the Trustees numerous times.

                            My attorney is a specialist, he does just BK and sues CRAs when they don't report his BK clients right. He was initially dubious about my qualifying for Chapter 7 but worked it out for me, and I had a painless process.

                            I wouldn't use a business attorney, a litigator or a wills and trusts attorney for BK - any more than I would use my BK attorney for any of the others.
                            Chapter 7 Filed 8/11/2009, Discharged 11/23/2009

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Are you contributing to a retirement fund? I would assume that could also help your cash flow in your test as retirement funds are not available to creditors.

                              Comment

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