did not list all assest

[scorpio]

My brother filed for ch7 in CA, he has appliances and electronics in the house worth over 10k did not list it , is tyhat consider fruad if the trustee find out??

[BobMango]

Yes and the consequences could be significant. Has he had his 341 yet?

[scorpio]

yes he done with that meeting, but still has 60 days to turn some documents were missing.
he owes some family member money and he listed him as creditor, now that family member threat to contact the trustee to tell him about the valuable items did not include in the file!will the trustee investigate it ??

[newbie2]

yes he done with that meeting, but still has 60 days to turn some documents were missing.
he owes some family member money and he listed him as creditor, now that family member threat to contact the trustee to tell him about the valuable items did not include in the file!will the trustee investigate it ??

The trustee will probably investigate a complaint like that, but keep in mind, just because your relative feels that things are worth $10,000 it doesn't mean that they are. The appliances and electronics are used, and the value may not even be close to that amount if they were to be put up for sale. He should contact his attorney to amend his petition to include the items he forgot about and try to exempt them.

[AnnieC]

At this point...even contacting the attorney to amend is going to start to raise a red flag...that is why those types of amendments needs to be done PRIOR to the 341 hearing and I am sure your brother was advised of that...

Just tell your brother to be prepared that this now can lead to other issues...

[jtallerie]

Your brother should try to talk to the relative he owes $ and work out some type of deal to pay the relative back. I myself owe $ to family members.

One of my family members asked me to include him as a creditor, on my bk, so he could potentially get some kind of tax credit for uncollectable loans (even if it is some small percentage of what he loaned us).


However, I do not own 10,000.00 worth of appliances. If I did, I can understand why a relative would resent it. When my 13 year old refrigerator broke, we were very lucky to be able to buy the part to fix it ourselves we could not even afford a repair man. This same relative offered up his cc to buy us a new refrigerator if we could not fix it. He could not see us living without a refrigerator. When my appliances go, I will most likely have to pay to haul them away, they are worth nothing.


It is not fair to the relative, to not be paid back. 10,000.00 worth of appliances is excessive. Borrowing money from relatives is a last resort. This relative might feel; why should your brother live such an extravagant lifestyle with his/her money. The relative obviously feels taken advantage of.

Your brother may not have ment to take advantage of a relative. He might have thought at the time when he took the loan, he would have been able to repay this loan.

He must communicate with this relative!

If I was your brother, I would offer to sell the expensive appliances & replace them with less expensive appliances and use whatever profit to pay back the relative. I would also include the relative I owed the money in the process to find out the fair market value of these items. They might not be worth much any longer!

It looks like your brother must pay back this relative outside the b/k plan. Your brother should also invistigate whether or not there is such a tax credit for his relative for uncollectable loans. I'm not sure about it.


Your brother could be in lots of trouble for lying about his assets!

This should be a lesson for everyone that reads this forum!

Never Never lie about assets!

It is not illegal to be broke.

It is illegal to hide assets!

Many people seem to forget that bk, is public record. If someone wants to look up your case they can on pacer! When you hide assets you can open a big can of worms. Which can include blackmale!

How much does your brother owe this family member?

[frogger]

Pile them out by the street in a yard sale and see if you get 10K for them. They might have cost that much new, but they are obsolete the minute they leave the store.

[scorpio]

he owes him 40K, and never intent tp payor even try to pay back,that appliances it's worth money for sure, Bose system alone it's 6K new and bose will keep the value, I bought bose syaytem for500 dollars and after 7 yrs still 500, even the used one won't sell for less 350.

[jtallerie]

Wow! 40k is a lot of money! This relative must be very angry! Your brother needs to speak to a lawyer. He needs to determine the real (used garage sale) value of these items. I think it would cost the Trustee more $ to haul off appliances than they are worth. No one would be willing to pay much for used appliances. I used to sell appliances.

Did you ever try to sell a used refrigerator? If you paid $2000.00, you would be lucky to get even 400.00 and that is if it's only a year old! The Trustee would not want the appliances, it would cost too much to take them.

A friend of mine had a Sub Zero refrigerator, it was always breaking down from the first week she bought it. She paid thousands for it! 5 years later, She finally paid to have it hauled off to the trash these appliances are very heavy.

Your brother also has the arguement that these appliances arent in working order and have no value!
If the Trustee suspects fraud, he / she will send an Appraisor to the home to determine the value of the contents.


The Bose system might be of intrest to the trustee. However no one would pay any thing near 6000.00 for it. It might be worth a few hundred dollars(if that) People who can afford those kinds of luxuries, would only want to buy them new.

[scorpio]

ok but does the fact that he did not list these items consider fruad, even if they worth few hundereds, they even list Jewlery @300 ,the wedding ring alone is 5K dimond??

[jtallerie]

I don't know for sure if it would be considered fraud. Your brother really needs to find out from a lawyer. I know my lawyer told me that I have to list all my assets, and I will, I was told not to leave any thing out. I know when I filled out the papers @ my lawyers office I was truthful. I listed my refrigerator at 25.00. (it is 12 yrs. old. ice maker does not work, water does not work, all the plastic drawers are cracked and it flooded my kitchen). We fixed it 4 times. The truth is that as far as value goes, I lied! I felt I should put some value on it. It is worth $00.00. No one would buy it. No one would even want it if I was giving it away for free!

I know for sure you have to list your appliances and such. If your relative contacts the Trustee, it will be invistigated, and an apprasal will be done at the home, the appraisor will go through the house room by room.



I'm sure that your brother had to put a value on the appliances when he filed. He might be suprised to learn that the value he put down for appliances might not be fraud. (yard sale value). It might be all these items are worth!



Wedding rings can be lost? If your brother took the ring to the pawn shop, he could not get much for it. These type of items are only worth what some one is willing to pay for them.

I know you are allowed to keep wedding rings under a certain value, they might be exempt.

[geye]

Ok, I didn't have a spot to list my appliances like the fridge and dishwasher, etc. Normally they would go with the house if you sell it, so I assumed that's why I didn't include them separately, since they're part of the value of the house.
I'll have to ask the attorney. I'm not planning on turning in the paperwork for a few more days yet...

[jtallerie]

Where I live in Fl. you are given a sandard form to fill in. You have to check the boxes and write in the value (it states on the form, not what it would cost to go out and buy new, yard sale value). I really believe that my appliances should be included in my home value. My home came with the appliances. Not that any of my appliances are worth anything anyway.

[angles]

I believe in California all household appliances are exempt provided not one item is worth more then $450. do a quick search for BK exemptions.