AZ HOA gone wild !

[idainc]

It continues....

After the hearing, the HOA attorney came over to me with a bill for $243 which was comprised of late fees and 3 months of regular fees after the bankruptcy. He said that since it was obvious the judge was going ot find in our favor it would be a good idea if we reduced the award by what we owed. I declined. So now I’m sitting here with a bill to pay after they pay me.

But since the house was sold with a surplus and the county treasurer has the surplus amount ( more than enough to pay the HOA) I started digging around. There is a state law that states that the HOA should be paid from these funds, yet their attorney gave me a bill. Given that their attorney is a real bottom feeder and I’m certain I’m right I may figure out what paperwork I need to file with the treasurer to get them paid. After all, the asset was sold to settle all the security interests and they are one of them. I’m sure their atty. Either doesn’t know or is trying to trick us into paying double. Under the law they are the #2 recipient of funds after a trustee sale that is in excess of the 1st mortgage. ARS 33-812. Schmuck.

[justbroke]

Yes... I would wait too. I would make sure that the Trustee sale closes out and you get an accounting of the debts (liens) settled. You are right... I would NOT pay them when they are probably going to be paid from the trustee sale.

[idainc]

Well the trustee sale is over. The county treasurer has $65,000 + and the HOA sent me a bill for $2400 ( which is the amount hat triggered the suit). From reading the law it seems they have to have the smarts to actually account for what they are due then file with the treasurer for it. I could care less what they're paid as long as they dont come after me. And of they do, for $243, I'll counter sue. Given the law, I cant imagine a judge finding me negligent. Especially after getting two verdicts against them in Federal Court.

In retrospect, what kind of attorney would approach me after losing and grovelling to the judge and hand me a bill for $243 ? Jeez...

Thank you justbroke for your considered replies !

[justbroke]

I think the attorney was just being macho and trying to say "well, you still legally owe us money".

[idainc]

I told him what fueled both suits was the snotty attitude of both the HOA rep and his own associate who didnt seem to care if I had a judgment against their cleint or not. Interesting spot - they can either hand me a bill or apply to get the trustee proceeds. I cant say I would want to hand me a bill at this point. I did cross examine the HOA VP of finance and I asked him if he was aware of what the house sold for. He answered NO. I told them there was $65K to go after. Yet they hand me a bill. What a hopeless mess. I am not paying them a dime.

Then they'll sue me for $243. Well. I guess if I can handle 2 suits in Federal BK court, I can handle a small claims suit.

Why do I get the feeling this thread isnt finished ?

[BROKEDED]

Why do I get the feeling this thread isnt finished ?

Because!!! This is the thread that ne-ver eeeeends...yes it goes on and on my frieeeends...some people started posting to it not know what it was and they'll continue posting to it forever just because...it's the thread that ne-ver eeeeends....lala la la la la laaaaaa.... now everybody!!!....

Ooops, sorry! Got the silly sleepies.

[tcreegan]

Why do I get the feeling this thread isnt finished ? I hope not, seems that they haven't learned their lesson yet...and I have really enjoyed reading about you learn'n em...

You are the hero of this epic!

Tom in Colo

[BROKEDED]

Yes, I agree with Tom. I am very happy to see you stick it to that bunch of nimwits and I am the President of an HOA. Luckily, we have a good management company and they've been a valuable resource. I am a cautious board member and have often had to reign in some of the more zealous members to keep from being in lawsuit territory. Your HOA's management company and by extension, their attorneys are an approved arm of the Board of Directors and the HOA. If you wanted to get really nasty about it you could probably sue the HOA and the individual Board members for damage. In my state the general liability insurance covers INDIVIDUAL board members against lawsuits if they were acting correctly in their duties or can prove that they were acting in good faith but it still would not protect the Association directly. Billing one time is a mistake. Two times back to back is negligence and asking for it.

I didn't mean to insinuate that this thread was "too" long. This can server as a valuable tool for others that are being unlawfully harrassed by their HOA.

[idainc]

I plan on getting paid from the second hearing then ignoring them. If they bill me for fees that are covered by a lien that has more than ample funds it would seem to be harassment by them to ignore that avenue of payment in favor of billing me. The law regarding excess funds does not delineate between pre-petition and post petition and it specifically includes fees and attorney fees etc. They have a clear path to the cash. And to my mind if they have two viable liens they are obligated to seek redress that way rather than through me.

If they dont go that route ( and I'll know from the court web site) and bill me again, I'll find an atorney to take it on contingency and haul them back in again. It would seem to be a clear issue of harassment and gross negligence at that point and I've really had enough. But of course if they bill me for pre-petition debt I will be happy to oblige and slam them again. They are schmucks.

[idainc]

Update - Received a 1099 from the HOA for the damages they paid. Of course, I've already filed. Hard to tell if its taxable or not. Its reimbursement for my time to bring these lousy people into court twice. If I hired an attorney it would have been paid to the attorney. Any thoughts ? I read IRS # 525 and it isnt clear.

[justbroke]

How do they 1099 damages? That seems highly inappropriate! That's an operating/legal expense, not a payment paid to a consultant/employee. Okay, I admit, I'm not a CPA, but it just sounds REALLY REALLY strange.

What type of 1099 was it? 1099-MISC? If it was a MISC, I'm even more curious!

[idainc]

1099 - misc income. In re-reading the irs 525 court awards are taxable but I thinkthey are reaching. Then again, there is little I can do about it I suspect. I can include it in my 2010 filing as income but it isnt earned income and the IRS may see business income and think its part of that. My wife had small salaried income and mine was all self employed.

Techincally, it is for lost wages. One award states " damages " and the other "Lost wages " . We are taxed on what the award replaces per the publication. These are sums paid to an individual and it is up to the individual to figure out how to deal with it - including ignoring it. Even when I called the IRS they coulgnt quite put it in any one income category and they wanted to have their legal tem get back to me. No thank You !

Still, inappropriate and foul.

[justbroke]

Okay, the 1099 is for wages, not the "damages". But the wages are damages, and, more specifically, you probably took vacation time, so it was sorta unearned wages? LOL. I would never want to ask the IRS anything.

Reminds me of the guy who recently called 911 to ask if growing marijuana in his home was illegal; okay, maybe not the same.

[PushRestart]

Wow, this forum never ceases to amaze me, way to go! Big congrats for your win, my best wishes for more wins on the way to the final day!

[idainc]

Okay, the 1099 is for wages, not the "damages". But the wages are damages, and, more specifically, you probably took vacation time, so it was sorta unearned wages? LOL. I would never want to ask the IRS anything.

Reminds me of the guy who recently called 911 to ask if growing marijuana in his home was illegal; okay, maybe not the same.

Oh, I agree on the IRS 100%.

The first award was for “damages” and the second was for “lost wages”. Likely if anything only the second award would be applicable.

If I read the IRS bulletin correctly, there are categories of damages that aren’t tobe included as income. Emotional damages are one for example not that these are emotional.
Being self-employed, I once had a client send me a 1099 for fees I charged them. Its possible the IRS would see this as much the same thing as I never heard from them about it. As long as I have business income this is included in that per se. It is also possible that in such a bad year for us that including this in an amended return wouldn’t cause any added tax as it isn’t earned income and therefore doesn’t warrant SS taxes.

BTW – As a follow up on the HOA fee bill presented at the end of he second hearing, the excess proceeds were deposited with the county treasurer’s offices and a suit filed and the HOA and HELOC lender notified. The path is now set for the HOA to go make their claim for their $200 (and maybe $2500 in legal fees). There is no now legitimate cause to bill me for anything else. If they do, I plan on finding an attorney to go after them for harassment on a contingency basis. After all they violated the automatic stay, then were found in contempt of court for violating the discharge injunction, and now they would be seeking ot be paid twice over.
But quite frankly I’d like to be free of them. These people really don’t seem to like people standing up to them at all.