HELP!! QUESTION about keeping a wedding ring in illinois and my situation.

[bullsnike]

Hello,

My wife and I are getting ready to file for ch 7 (or 13 if we have to) and i don't know what to do about our situation.

My wife's wedding ring is worth approx $20,000 (probably would fetch around $6000 at auction). This ring is something that has been handed down in my family for over 100 years and we are worried that if we file ch 7 we will lose it. My question is, since my parents gave us the ring and since there is no actual paperwork trail showing that we own the ring (it is not insured and has not been apprased), as long as my wife doesn't wear the ring (only her wedding band which isn't worth anything), is there a chance that the trustee would find out? Also if we disclosed the ring, what are the chances it will be taken and is there any exemption besides the wild card (which would have to be used on my car) that would cover the ring.

Our situation is as follows. We have a meeting on the 23rd with a lawyer and plan on filing that day. Total unsecured debt around $36000. Secured Debt $6000. We rent and do not own a home.

Approx $3600/mo income (pre tax/deductions) $2200/mo after deductions
$700/mo rent
$100/mo pet costs
around $120/mo average electric ($200 in summer and $50 in winter)
$80/mo phone/internet
$120/mo cell phone
$120/mo car insurance
$150/mo gas
$200 car payment (car was repoed on May 27th. looking to be sold some time after the 18th according to the letter, but we had 30 days from the date of the letter to claim our property inside so I'm thinking that we can block the sale if we get bankruptcy filed next week. Someone wanna chime in on thoughts on this?)
$200/mo student loan payments starting at the end of july (I realize these won't be discharged)
Misc expenses (food, entertainment, clothing, etc...) - $300-$450/mo

Please help me understand what I can expect. I'm completly lost.
Also will we get any use from the homestead exemption at all without a house?

Thanks!

[SMinGA]

Planning to hide an asset = bad idea.

First on your income: $3600 gross to $2200 net seems like a huge jump. What is coming out, besides taxes? (And are taxes being withheld at the correct amounts? If you normally get a refund, you may need to adjust withholding to take out less - discuss w/ attorney.)

The best recourse might be to disclose the ring, discuss w/ atty the correct valuation to use. If you end up needing to file a ch. 13 because of it - the student loans would stay in forebearance/deferment while in a plan. So you would not have to make that $200/mo payment.

I am not sure that $100/mo (about 5% of your net income?) for pets is a great plan on your budget - but if you check IRS guidelines you are perhaps under in food/clothing/personal/misc care/etc. and include it in those categories?

Have heard you can get recently repo'ed vehicles back with filing, do not know the details.

[momofthree]

If the ring has not been appraised recently, how did you come to that value? The trustee may very well just see it as a 100-year-old bobble....

A quote from an attorney's website:

I tell people that they should take their wedding ring to a pawn shop to get an estimate of what it is worth. Most are surprised (and a little depressed) at what the true liquidation value of their wedding ring is. Once I had a client who had purchased a wedding ring for nearly $15,000 many years before, and were surprised to learn that of the three pawn shops she went to, the most that was offered to her was $1,500.

source: http://www.jacksonwhitelaw.com/mini-...-need-to-know/

[dumpinmydebt]

No one on here is going to tell you to hide the asset, because it is wrong.

To answer your question, there really is no way for the Trustee to "find out."

There is always a chance your case can turn into an asset case when you have something of that value.

Yes, your after tax income is oddly low.

[StartingOver08]

Sounds like you have already looked up your exemptions. But if you have not, here they are: http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankrup...et%2C+IL-IN-WI

The above posters are right, you want to declare what you have in the way of assets and liabilities. As pointed out, your ring is probably not worth anywhere close to the value you think it is worth. Most of us over value our possessions, it is natural.

Before you file, please take the time to go over a proper budget in case a Ch 13 is better for you to file in order to protect this asset. By "proper budget" I mean one that includes all of your actual expenses plus whatever overage can be built in by using the irs/trustee guidelines. Check here for your guidelines: http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa...anstesting.htm

Don't jump into this just to save your car. Filing the petition correctly is extremely important.

[bullsnike]

In reposnse to value of the ring.........

I used to work for a jewelry store so I have a pretty good idea of actual cost since I know the markups. The ring is a VVSI1 grade d-e color 1ct round solitaire. I'm thinking we will probably end up letting my parents take it back for the time being seeing as there is no linkage to the ring because it came from my mom and has been passed down 4 or 5 times. As far as my income drop, we do have our tax withholding set high (this was to guarentee a refund), but the rest comes from the pre-tax deductions (401k, health insurance, life insurance, legal plan, etc...). I clear around 70% of my check after all is said and done.

[dumpinmydebt]

I've always heard that it's best to take exemptions so you don't get a high refund, or that the trustee likes to see that, something like that. Anyway, we take enough exemptions so that we won't get a refund, but we won't owe.

[StartingOver08]

The value of the ring has nothing to do with cost. It has to do with what you can get on the open market for a quick sale. This applies to any asset you have that you can not exempt. That is what the Trustee will look for: liquidated value.

Revisit your idea of having a large refund.

[GettingGoing]

I used to work for a jewelry store so I have a pretty good idea of actual cost since I know the markups. The ring is a VVSI1 grade d-e color 1ct round solitaire. I'm thinking we will probably end up letting my parents take it back for the time being seeing as there is no linkage to the ring because it came from my mom and has been passed down 4 or 5 times. As far as my income drop, we do have our tax withholding set high (this was to guarentee a refund), but the rest comes from the pre-tax deductions (401k, health insurance, life insurance, legal plan, etc...). I clear around 70% of my check after all is said and done.

You will be asked if you have transferred any property in an attempt to conceal/hide property in your petition. I dont think I would go this route if I was you.