Parking ticket...no..fines...yes??

[golden37]

Quick question...I have $1300 in parking tickets which have ballooned to $4700 with fines. I know I have to pay the actual tickets BUT are the $3400 in fines dischargable? I've already paid the collection agency $1900 towards the $4700.

[sworks2]

yes it is dischargeable if it's considered a 'punitive' fine. which when the fine continues to grow above the initial fine it is a 'punitive' fine.

[golden37]

ok so if I got a ticket for $50 and its now $250 I could discharge the $200.

I have over 25 tickets @ $50 a pop and got a late "charge" of $200 on each.

[sworks2]

yes..but you have to have paid the original fine by your filing date. anything after that date won't be dischargeable.

[golden37]

That is GREAT news. I've already paid them $1900 in Feb. The original fines were $1300with out the fee. Thank you for your help!

[justbroke]

Sorry, but 11 USC 523(a)(19)(iii)(B) reads to me as though the actual citation AND any penalty (or other payment) owed to a Governmental unit... is non-dischargeable. The primary reason they are non-dischargeable is because they are considered a punishment and not a debt.

Also, please note that in a Chapter 13, these may be dischargeable through the super-discharge. However, a Chapter 7 is different and can't discharge certain things.

11 USC 523(a) A discharge under section 727, 1141, 1228 (a), 1228 (b), or 1328 (b) of this title does not discharge an individual debtor from any debt—
.
.
.
(19)(iii)(B) results, before, on, or after the date on which the petition was filed, from—
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(iii) any court or administrative order for any damages, fine, penalty, citation, restitutionary payment, disgorgement payment, attorney fee, cost, or other payment owed by the debtor.

So, it may just be me... someone explain to me how that makes "penalties" dischargeable in a Chapter 7?

For what it's worth, my discharge order contains this langauge... under non-dischargeable items....

Debts for most fines, penalties, forfeitures, or criminal restitution obligations;

While you could parse out what "most" means, or think that "some" are not, you should file a Complaint to Determine Dischargeability if you are unsure.

[biotechsolution]

You could use the reasoning for the parking fine penalties that following the penalties for taxes.

Penalties.
Pecuniary loss penalties are nondischargeable. These are penalties intended to compensate the government for monetary losses and therefore fall under the general rules applicable to tax dischargeability (e.g. 100% penalty).

Non-pecuniary loss penalties are dischargeable. These penalties are intended to be punitive, e.g. fraud penalty, negligence penalty, failure to file penalty, failure to pay penalty.

Where the actual fine is not dischargeable but the late penalties would be.

[justbroke]

You could use the reasoning for the parking fine penalties that following the penalties for taxes.

Where in the Code (Title 11) does it allow you to apply tax related rules to fines?

Remember, I'm just wondering, because everything I see and have read, say that they are not. Now, I did write that you SHOULD file a complaint to determine dischargeability to make sure!