This is a f'n nightmare!!!

[coolmom04]

So, today there is a document filed for the trustee to hire the attorney who we went in front of in court.... to examine our assets.. we knew this would happen. He wants to examine the value of the stock options. Then the attorney filed a motion to extend. What does all this mean?! Does this mean the trustee has decided we're okay to go ahead and get rid of the presumption of abuse and now we've become an asset case and can move forward???

[justbroke]

So, today there is a document filed for the trustee to hire the attorney who we went in front of in court.... to examine our assets.. we knew this would happen. He wants to examine the value of the stock options. Then the attorney filed a motion to extend. What does all this mean?! Does this mean the trustee has decided we're okay to go ahead and get rid of the presumption of abuse and now we've become an asset case and can move forward???

A presumption of abuse is filed by teh United States Trustee (UST). This is a different person than the (panel) Trustee.

The panel Trustee administers your assets and the UST administers the entire bankruptcy program. So, the presumption of abuse doesn't go away. The UST and Trustee work almost independently, each performing their particular job function.

Your presumption of abuse will not go away until the earlier of the UST withdrawing the motion or the UST filing a motion to dismiss... either which must be done before 30 days after the Presumption of Abuse was filed. So that would be 6/3/2010.

What exactly did they file a motion to extend on? There are different dates involved in a bankruptcy and the extension would be for some specific date/deadline.

[coolmom04]

A presumption of abuse is filed by teh United States Trustee (UST). This is a different person than the (panel) Trustee.

The panel Trustee administers your assets and the UST administers the entire bankruptcy program. So, the presumption of abuse doesn't go away. The UST and Trustee work almost independently, each performing their particular job function.

Your presumption of abuse will not go away until the earlier of the UST withdrawing the motion or the UST filing a motion to dismiss... either which must be done before 30 days after the Presumption of Abuse was filed. So that would be 6/3/2010.

What exactly did they file a motion to extend on? There are different dates involved in a bankruptcy and the extension would be for some specific date/deadline.

Thanks for your response JB. Here's exactly what they requested an extension for:

3. Rule 4003(b) of the federal rules of bankruptcy procedure provides that court may, for cause, extend the time fixed for filing objections to exemptions upon the motion of the trustee or a creditor.
4. The time for filing objections to the exemptions pursuant to Rule 4003(b) of the federal rules of bankruptcy procedure will expire on or about May 22, 2010 and such time has not expired.
5. The trustee needs additional time in which to investigate and determine the value of the Debtor's stock options. Wherefore, the trusee prays for the court to extend the time to object to exemptions claimed by the Debtor for 60 days through and including July 21, 2010.

Also, the panel trustee "employed" himself as the attorney .. representing himself.

We tried to exempt about 3K of the stock options, but there is a potential value of about 16K in four years. Right now though - there is only $3K that can be cashed in. The rest are just stock options or restricted stocks that vest over a four year period. We offered the trustee $3K, since that's about all they're really worth at the time. We did this right after the 341 meeting, but we never heard anything.

[justbroke]

Ah, so the extension is only for the exemptions which would only deal with the status of the case as an asset case. This would only affect the case closing, and not the case discharge.

However, the "real" Trustee, the UST, has filed a motion to dismiss for abuse. That would be the one which I would worry about.

[coolmom04]

Ah, so the extension is only for the exemptions which would only deal with the status of the case as an asset case. This would only affect the case closing, and not the case discharge.

However, the "real" Trustee, the UST, has filed a motion to dismiss for abuse. That would be the one which I would worry about.

So, the presumption of abuse is a motion to dismiss for abuse? We provided all the documentation to fight it on the 18th, so we're waiting to hear. it's good to know they have 30 days to decide from the date of filing the presumption. I did not realize that.

[justbroke]

So, the presumption of abuse is a motion to dismiss for abuse? We provided all the documentation to fight it on the 18th, so we're waiting to hear. it's good to know they have 30 days to decide from the date of filing the presumption. I did not realize that.

Yes, the presumption is the precursor to a motion to dismiss for abuse under 11 USC 707(b). The UST has 30-days to actually file the motion or withdraw the presumption.

Since you provided documentation, you are just awaiting the final decision. That decision will come in the form of either a withdrawal of the presumption or a new motion to dismiss.

Curious... what was the presumption about? Some expense you claimed that you didn't properly document or are allowed?

[coolmom04]

We claimed expenses for me and my mom. My mom lives with us. She is not employed. We spend about $600/month on her health insurance, prescriptions, and co-pays. I have my own debts. At the time of filing, I was not employed. We had to provide 12 months of bank statements showing where/what we pay for my debts and evidence of my mom's bills that we pay... all of which are completely documented. The attorney seems to be extremely confident that we'll win. He said he's never had a case dismissed or converted to a 13. I'm wondering if we'll be his first!

[justbroke]

Sounds like you have it documented. The key is that you are actually allowed to care for an aging or ill parent as if they were a child. They need not even be residing in your household (under your roof) for this to count. Just reads as though the Trustee is making sure by making you provide documentation. I really don't see any issue and it reads as if your attorney is willing to fight.

[coolmom04]

Thank you so much JB! I really really appreciate your input.