Awesome conveyance of thought you guys, great substance, well written and your college education really shows.
On a more serious note, we all agree that the chances of our children following the footsteps of their fathers and grandfathers to the same factory and earning a good living for a lifetime, are all but non-existent today. Our competative advantage has changed from manufacturing to a more professional services sector. It was those manufacturing jobs (and such) that supported a workforce with a high school education or less.
And of course, there's nothing wrong with retiring after a long career in manufacturing, but unfortunately, only a fraction of those jobs exist today and likely even less in the future. Tomorrows jobs will require a degree, we all agree. When a fast food joint requires a bachelors degree, I guess the writing is on the wall. There will always be a need for unskilled labor, and unfortunately we have an abundance. Even skilled trades required at least two years of college.
College is a great thing for our kids, but at what cost, I agree with you both. I am currently having these discussions with my daughter that is enrolled a private college...oh shit is it expensive. This weekend we are counting dollars to determine if she can return in the fall. Up until now, during her freshman year, she had only borrowed the max allowed by the feds...$5500, I believe. After $32,000 in scholarships and grants, I sucked up the rest ($13,000) on a Plus loan.
Since I filed BK last year, a Parents Plus loan is out of the question. More importantly, I cannot and will not amass that kind of debt on my current pay. I want to give my kid the best of everything I didn't have, but a 40% pay cut and a BK changes that scenario, I did learn my lesson. My goal is to get her back home and enrolled at a local state university at a fraction of the cost.
Being young, she doesn't see the effects of carrying huge debt...she only see's up to the tip of her nose. She is learning though. So it then becomes our duty to educate them and guide them to a cost effective college, based on what we can afford and what they can handle upon graduation. But, if we are all reading and posting on this board, we likely cannot afford the elite or have since learned better.
My discussion with her is based upon what she plans on majoring in...you shouldn't be a doctor if you can't stand the sight of blood. She does what a professional degree in a science of which will likely require a Masters. So our strategy from an employers prospective is...typically no one cares about your high school GPA when you have a bachelors...typically no one cares about your bachelors when you have a masters. So let's do what makes financial sense now and possibly in the future, we can afford you to go to Harvard for your Masters, just get good grades today.
Bottom line, a bachelors degree is more important today than it ever has, just to open the door to opportunity. The cost of that opportunity should be as closely scrutinized as the school of your choice. It took a financial disaster for me to wake up and smell the coffee.....I can't plan on ever regaining that 40% lost salary anytime in the near future.
On a more serious note, we all agree that the chances of our children following the footsteps of their fathers and grandfathers to the same factory and earning a good living for a lifetime, are all but non-existent today. Our competative advantage has changed from manufacturing to a more professional services sector. It was those manufacturing jobs (and such) that supported a workforce with a high school education or less.And of course, there's nothing wrong with retiring after a long career in manufacturing, but unfortunately, only a fraction of those jobs exist today and likely even less in the future. Tomorrows jobs will require a degree, we all agree. When a fast food joint requires a bachelors degree, I guess the writing is on the wall. There will always be a need for unskilled labor, and unfortunately we have an abundance. Even skilled trades required at least two years of college.
College is a great thing for our kids, but at what cost, I agree with you both. I am currently having these discussions with my daughter that is enrolled a private college...oh shit is it expensive. This weekend we are counting dollars to determine if she can return in the fall. Up until now, during her freshman year, she had only borrowed the max allowed by the feds...$5500, I believe. After $32,000 in scholarships and grants, I sucked up the rest ($13,000) on a Plus loan.
Since I filed BK last year, a Parents Plus loan is out of the question. More importantly, I cannot and will not amass that kind of debt on my current pay. I want to give my kid the best of everything I didn't have, but a 40% pay cut and a BK changes that scenario, I did learn my lesson. My goal is to get her back home and enrolled at a local state university at a fraction of the cost.
Being young, she doesn't see the effects of carrying huge debt...she only see's up to the tip of her nose. She is learning though. So it then becomes our duty to educate them and guide them to a cost effective college, based on what we can afford and what they can handle upon graduation. But, if we are all reading and posting on this board, we likely cannot afford the elite or have since learned better.
My discussion with her is based upon what she plans on majoring in...you shouldn't be a doctor if you can't stand the sight of blood. She does what a professional degree in a science of which will likely require a Masters. So our strategy from an employers prospective is...typically no one cares about your high school GPA when you have a bachelors...typically no one cares about your bachelors when you have a masters. So let's do what makes financial sense now and possibly in the future, we can afford you to go to Harvard for your Masters, just get good grades today.
Bottom line, a bachelors degree is more important today than it ever has, just to open the door to opportunity. The cost of that opportunity should be as closely scrutinized as the school of your choice. It took a financial disaster for me to wake up and smell the coffee.....I can't plan on ever regaining that 40% lost salary anytime in the near future.
That means that over 60% of those who leave school full time either put their loans into some sort of forbearance or deferment, or let the loans default.
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