Schedule J Expenses in Ohio

[BrokeToo]

Hi All,

I'd like some feedback on my expenses for a Chapter 7 in Ohio. I am single, over-median, but pass the means test with negative DMI. Below are the expenses I will list on Schedule J. I'd like for you to review these and tell me what you think. Also, if any of you can think of any allowable expenses I might be missing, please advise. One other quick note, I have a baby due in mid-July, for which I will be liable for support and medical insurance, so I may/may not wait to file before that time. What I originally planned to do was file in June and mention the new baby expenses at the 341 meeting. Anyways, below follows my expense schedule:

Monthly Gross Income: 3800
Taxes: 820

Rent: 875
Utilities: 170 (I plan to list this higher as this was w/o heat or AC running)
*Note for rent/utilities* My county allowance for these in OH is $1,208

Car: 451
Car Insurance: 70
Gas/car maint: 150 (My daily work commute is 42 miles)
Medical: 100 (Contribution to HSA)
HSA Administrative Fee & Banking Monthly Fees: 6
Food: 300
Clothing: 100
Housekeeping supplies: 30
Personal Care products & services: 40
Miscellaneous/Pet: 40
Cable & Internet: 108
Cell Phone: 120
Secured Computer Equipment Loan: 114
Gym membership: 43
Professional affiliation fee: 24
Experian Credit Monitoring: 15
Short Term Disablility Insurance: 54
Term life Insurance: 25
Renters Insurance: 35
Recreation: 100
Annual State Hunting/Fishing Licenses: 5
Charitable Contributions: 40 (cash)


Thanks in advance for your input/suggestions!

[newbie2]

Most looks fine, but I would up the food budget to what is allowed or close to it, and subtract out the credit report monitoring. Doubtful that the trustee will allow that.

Good luck!

[BrokeToo]

Does any/everyone else agree, have any suggestions? Thanks newbie2!

[SMinGA]

For a household of 1, food/clothing-apparel/housekeeping supplies/personal care/misc is $526 by IRS guidelines. You have $300 food, $100 clothing, $148 misc (recreation, gym, hunting license), $30 housekeeping, $40 personal. Too much...

You indicate the $40 charitable contributions is $40. Do you have receipts to back this up? If not it could be a problem.

I agree that the credit monitoring needs to go.

What is the situation on the 'secured computer loan'? Are you certain its secured? Lien on the computer? That could be a problem...

Is there any reason why you can't wait til after the baby is born to file? As a household of 1, with the expenses you list and being over median I think you'll have trouble. Your list shows $135 DMI, and I'm certain your recreation expense will be questioned, and probably your clothing. I think the trustee could see potential for a ch. 13 of ~$200/mo or so. Plus you'll have a different tax filing status for 2010 - head of household w/ 1 child. Need to adjust your tax withholding, so your net is going up.

Once the baby is born you'll be a household of 2 - will you be under median? More expenses will be reasonable. Will your healthcare cost increase due to adding a dependent to your coverage?

[BrokeToo]

Hi SMinGA,

Understood with the Misc. expenses., and credit monitoring.

No receipts for the charitable contributions, but even if the trustee objects, I plan to stand my ground bc it is such a small % of my income....if I were claiming $100 or more, I could see a legitimate objection. There should be nothing questioned about throwing a $10 bill in the basket at church ever week...that seems sensical.

The secured computer loan is a loan from American General with which I put up two computers/equipment as collateral. On my credit report it is listed as "Secured by Household Goods"

I can probably wait until the baby is born, but my girlfriend is going to be the one claiming the child under her household/custody, so I don't believe/know that I can claim. I will be the father on the Birth Certificate...does that play into the game? Would they require a court order for me to be able to claim childcare expenses? I will be able to claim medical of an extra $60, since our baby will be on my insurance.

I would be under median as a household of two, if I could claim the baby under my household. How and would that be possible?

Thanks!

[SMinGA]

My apologies... I assumed you were giving birth in a couple of months. Congrats just the same!

That does change things a bit though. If your girlfriend has custody, you probably cannot claim a household of 2. Talk to your atty about how to handle the child support payment - that would change the bottom line in terms of your actual DMI.

I'd suggest you also talk to your atty about the American General loan. How much do you actually think the goods are worth? You have the right, in ch. 7, to redeem secured loans for actual value. AG does not want your stuff - they can't do much with it. You could make an offer to redeem, or just not worry about it. For them to pick up the property after discharge they'd have to hire someone to go out and get it, but not before filing legal paperwork (writ of replevin I think its called). The odds of them going thru the trouble are slim. I imagine this would be a schedule J expense the trustee would question also. $114, along with any other gray areas on expenses, could turn into a ch. 13 payment?

For the charitable contribution, would it be possible to start paying by check from this point forward? Might not hurt...

As to when to file, if you do not already have a lawsuit filed against you, eviction or repo looming, then there should not be any reason to rush to filing. Filing after the baby is born, when you can claim the healthcare and child support, would probably make a ch. 7 less of an uphill battle.

[BrokeToo]

Hi SMinGA,

Understood with the food, misc, etc. expenses, I will make sure those are closer to $526

I do not have receipts to back up the $40 charitable contributions because I throw in a $10 bill at church every week. This is something I would stand my ground on if the trustee objects, because it is such a small % of my gross income and is a sensible amount that should not be questioned. I will get a signed affidavit if need be.

The secured computer loan is an American General loan that I secured with my home computer equipment in the total of $2700. On my credit report the loan is listed as "Secured by Household Goods".

I could probably wait until the baby is born to file, but that is really stretching it, bc I am expecting a couple creditors to file complaint and sue me in the next couple weeks. Also, I don't believe I could file as a household of 2, because although I will be the father on the birth certificate, my girlfriend will claim/have custody of the baby. Do I need a court order to claim childcare/dependent expenses? She is a teacher only making $30,000/year. My medical expense would go up $60 since the baby will be on my insurance (by allowable IRS guidelines).

Just some background, I did file a chapter 7 previously last October that was "Dismissed without Prejudice" in January. At the time, I lived in a different county and the rent/utilities allowance was only $857, so I've since moved and added an additional $350+ allowance for that (allowance of $1208). Also, I added short term disability ($54), Renter's Ins ($35), and Term Life Insurance ($25). The UST originally wanted to push me into a 13 at a $490 payment. Important note was that I had a second car when I filed (it's since been repo'd), so I passed the means test only because of that. Now I have only one car, but have added a higher rent/utility allowance/expenses, as well as additional insurance items that should offset the previously filed deficits.

I mentioned that I would list my utilities higher than $170 on schedule J due to the variations. Most tenants living in the same apartment say it averages well over $250 most months. What would you suggest I safely list this at?

What are your thoughts?

[BrokeToo]

Hi SMinGA,

Understood with the food, misc, etc. expenses, I will make sure those are close to $526

I do not have receipts to back up the $40 charitable contributions because I throw in a $10 bill at church every week. This is something I would stand my ground on if the trustee objects, because it is such a small % of my gross income and is a sensible amount that should not be questioned. I will get a signed affidavit if need be.

The secured computer loan is an American General loan that I secured with my home computer equipment in the total of $2700. On my credit report the loan is listed as "Secured by Household Goods".

I could probably wait until the baby is born to file, but that is really stretching it, bc I am expecting a couple creditors to file complaint and sue me in the next couple weeks. Also, I don't believe I could file as a household of 2, because although I will be the father on the birth certificate, my girlfriend will claim/have custody of the baby. Do I need a court order to claim childcare/dependent expenses? She is a teacher only making $30,000/year. My medical expense would go up $60 since the baby will be on my insurance (by allowable IRS guidelines).

Just some background, I did file a chapter 7 previously last October that was "Dismissed without Prejudice" in January. At the time, I lived in a different county and the rent/utilities allowance was only $857, so I've since moved and added an additional $350+ allowance for that (allowance of $1208). Also, I added short term disability ($54), Renter's Ins ($35), and Term Life Insurance ($25). The UST originally wanted to push me into a 13 at a $490 payment. Important note was that I had a second car when I filed (it's since been repo'd), so I passed the means test only because of that. Now I have only one car, but have added a higher rent/utility allowance/expenses, as well as additional insurance items that should offset the previously filed deficits.

I mentioned that I would list my utilities higher than $170 on schedule J due to the variations. Most tenants living in the same apartment say it averages well over $250 most months. What would you suggest I safely list this at?

What are your thoughts?

[BrokeToo]

Sorry for the duplicate entries! They were not showing as loaded.

SMinGA, can you please note my additional comments about previously filing last year?

[SMinGA]

For utilities, there is an easy way to avoid guesswork. Call your utility company, ask about a budget billing plan. They'll look at the apartment's past 12 months and bill you an average amount. If your actual usage varies, they would adjust your bill up or down a few dollars here and there. Much easier to handle than big swings in billing amounts.

With the previous filing & dismissal, and previous issues with the UST - I say to be VERY careful. That alone could get your case extra scrutiny. You mentioned moving. Do you know if you'll be filing in the same district? (If so that is not great news for you...)

You also said you expect lawsuits. So none have happened yet. Even if one files a suit, you have time. I'm not an attorney, but since you had trouble filing before it seems to me you need to be very careful this time around. Delay filing as long as possible...

[OHBOY]

While going along with the other posted suggestions, personally I find the cell phone too high.

Also, I would consider the hunting fees, and gym membership part of recreation, which BTW is realistic at $ 100 but may just be considered high.... (I would include a statement that it covers out of state trips to funerals and weddings ?).

I would also have a 'spot' or 'spots' for misc. items: postal stamps & additional mailing costs, everything from tolls, parking fees, stamps, paper clips, rubber bands, tape, printer ink and paper, newspaper subscribtions, roadside assistance plans, ect, ect....

Also: you may consider raising your 'housekeeping budget' just a little bit to include not just cleaning items but also the occasional replenishment of sheets/pillows and cases, towels & washcloths, ect.

This all may sound 'nitpicking', but it's expensive 'out there' and I certainly intend to include everything right down to the last paperclip...if ever I end up filing.....

Don't know if you are saving every last reciept...I have a box where every one goes in, and periodically I separate them into individual groups...all just to be prepared for possibilities.........

Good Luck to you, especially on the very special event of becoming a dad.

[SMinGA]

ps-

I don't know if you'll need a court order/official arrangement to claim the child support expense. I can see it being argued either way. It might not be a bad idea to draw up some sort of agreement - to protect your own rights with the child as well as your finances. (I have a brother in law who had a son with someone else before he met my sister, he pays his child support but is allowed no contact with the child. Can't afford to fight it now.)

[SMinGA]

If his food/apparel/personal/misc/housekeeping were already low, I'd agree. But coming in above the IRS standards without a particular reason, being above median, and having a dismissed ch. 7 before with UST complications: not a good time to go even higher above the IRS standards...

On the other hand, do compute your actual vehicle gas + tag renewals + oil changes, tires, etc. and make sure you're not underscoring that.

One thing I just thought of - do you contribute to a 401k? If not, can you start? Would not be able to do anything major on the eve of filing but see what your attorney thinks about ~4-7%.

I would also have a 'spot' or 'spots' for misc. items: postal stamps & additional mailing costs, everything from tolls, parking fees, stamps, paper clips, rubber bands, tape, printer ink and paper, newspaper subscribtions, roadside assistance plans, ect, ect....

Also: you may consider raising your 'housekeeping budget' just a little bit to include not just cleaning items but also the occasional replenishment of sheets/pillows and cases, towels & washcloths, ect.

[BrokeToo]

Thank you for the congratulations on our baby! it's very exciting!

I will call the utility company later today to check, excellent advice!

My lawyer has already advised me to expect to be audited/scrutinized heavily. Unfortunately, it will be in the same district (Southern Ohio District). My attorney said that he would take my numbers and forward them to an associate of the company that does the audits to see what they would think. Hopefully that is of great help to me.

Correct about the lawsuits, none filed yet, but looming. Also, I am 10 days late on my Auto Lease payment with Honda, and if I wait until mid July, I am going to be risking heavily another repo, and I certainly need that not to happen to be able to claim that secured debt amount!

It's amazing how much stress this creates in a person's life! I just need to get past this to move on with my life and provide for my family's future.

[BrokeToo]

My actual gas/auto expenses will very likely be higher, proved by receipts, so that will probably be closer to $200 (I often visit my paraplegic cousin and stay on the weekends to clean/take care of him which really adds additional gas expense).

I do contribute $105/month to my employer's Simple IRA, which is my employer-preferred retirement fund. I contribute the exact amount they match. Is that something that I can claim?