Court this am-what a freaking joke that was....

[GoingDown]

I called my husband and asked what he remembered about it.

He said I had to go to court in 2005 or 2006. Despite the facts that I had no income and had a serious heart condition, the judge ordered me to pay over $3000 within 30 days.

The judge himself threatened to lock me up if I did not pay. I testified, standing in the courtroom, not sworn in or on the witness stand (which I asked to have done, and was refused), that I had no income, no assets, and had a serious heart condition, all of which I offered to prove.

My husband was not responsible for my debt at all. He filed a motion to reconsider with the judge. Before it was decided, he had a client pay him enough money to pay my bill, so he did. This was because he did not want me to continue to be terrified I would go to jail.

The judge was rubber-stamping everything the plaintiffs' attorneys wanted him to do. It was like the attorneys (there were only a couple of them) were in charge of the court room.

All of this is my memory also, and neither of us have impaired memories.

My husband also said that it made him furious to hear the deputies laughing about going to people's houses in the middle of the night or, in one case, at 5 a.m., to arrest them.

Every defendant was a debtor. This was not a criminal court.

This is the last I am going to say about this.

I am a newbie here, I realize, but I am not accustomed to being called a liar and being accused of being pro-creditor and anti-debtor, no matter what I say to defend myself. I do not like this environment. This is the first forum in which I have participated, in over a decade of forum participation, in which I have been treated like this.

pileated

I think you are lying.

I think you are a debt collector.

Anyone reading this forum, in the future, if you see a post from pileated, just keep in mind that this person is giving you advice from the debt collector point of view. Don't take it very seriously.

[WhatMoney]

Just too many holes in that story pileated...

Testified but not sworn in?
Deputies arresting debtors in the night? Why?
Handcuffs on debtors in civil court? Can't happen if they are only civil debtors.
Judge threatens jail time in your "non-sworn appearance" in court after you explain your medical problems and inability to pay?

I think you and your husband entered the Twilight Zone for a few hours back in 2005 or 2006 (can't recall the year?) . I glad you have both returned to earth and are safe.

And you also claim you are at attorney? I hope you are not a litigator in civil court. Why didn't you report this to the Bar? The judge clearly was violating civil rules by making jail threats to simple debtors in civil court. It would be your duty as a member of the state Bar to report outrageous infractions by an attorney/judge. And where are the transcripts?

If you want to come into the BK forum and make outrageous unverified claims that simply scare the newbies here, you are going to get some skepticism from the regulars - simple as that. We all have finally honed BS detectors.

On second thought, I agree with Going Down. About time you got here.

[music12]

it's unfortunate that some people on this forum don't understand - or don't want to believe - that there is such a thing as civil contempt for which a judge can send you to jail to force compliance with a court order. this sort of action by a judge would be ok if used as intended, but it's very easily abused.

[shark66]

As much as I'm certain that there's a judge somewhere who is in cahoots with creditors and not vaccinated against abusing the bench, let's look at the whole scenario on a semi-rational level...

Most of people on this forum have had (or still do) a significant amount of CC debt.

Many (including myself and Mrs.) have been sued and have judgments against them in every state.

How many have actually seen the inside of a jail cell - or were threatened with the prospect of seeing it - related to the aforementioned CC debt?

Right.

If you don't see ACLU (not to mention all the others) getting on top of every story of the given nature, and exploiting in to the highest of their abilities in a New York minute, you must be residing in a parallel universe. We live in a system in which many people believe that reading Miranda rights to non-U.S. citizens accused of terror plots is completely OK.

And they wouldn't jump on something like this if the stories had any merit?

Right.

I've lived in a totalitarian system in which people were actually taken away in the middle of the night by government (or their hired hands) never to be seen again. Trust me when I tell you that I can tell the difference when it comes to judicial systems between the two. It is immense.

I'd love for a judge to send me to jail for non-payment of debt, but nothing else. That would be my early retirement package, along with Yale, Sorbonne and/or Oxford for all of my children...

[catleg]

The judge himself threatened to lock me up if I did not pay. I testified, standing in the courtroom, not sworn in or on the witness stand (which I asked to have done, and was refused), that I had no income, no assets, and had a serious heart condition, all of which I offered to prove.

...

The judge was rubber-stamping everything the plaintiffs' attorneys wanted him to do. It was like the attorneys (there were only a couple of them) were in charge of the court room.

pileated

This is the flip side to the "just show up in court to get a dismissal" concept.
If you don't offer a valid defense then the judge has no choice but to find against you. At that point, unlike in a default judgment where they have to go looking for you to get paid, you've already placed yourself under the court's jurisdiction. Whether they can "order" blood from a stone seems to be the question at issue here.

[music12]

a little bit of research brought up the following links. i guess they support various positions that have been voiced in this thread. they are obviously only part of the picture. anyway, at this point i am rather exhausted from this whole discussion...

NJ court rule 1:10-3

"...no order for commitment shall be entered to enforce a judgment or order exclusively for the payment of money, ... except if a judgment creditor demonstrates to the court that the judgment debtor has assets that have been secreted or otherwise placed beyond the reach of execution."

in maine:

http://www.mainelegislature.org/legis/statutes/14/title14sec3136.html

in massachusetts (this is kind of hard to read! sort of medieval language)

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/224-6.htm

in minnesota: "A Warrant of Arrest may be Issued where a judgment debtor possesses or controls property and is concealing himself or about to leave the state. A warrant may also be issued where a party has disobeyed a subpoena."

http://www.co.goodhue.mn.us/departments/sheriff/Civil.aspx

an interesting article about "body attachments" and various opinions about it:

http://jqsworks.wordpress.com/arkansas-stories/debtors-prison/

[blondeinmn]

Funny, very funny. And pileated claims he is an attorney. If so, no wonder he can't pay his bills with such a grasp of the legal system. No one is going to be held in contempt for not paying a judgement. Can you be held in contempt for other reasons? Yes. But not for non payment of a judgement. In the last year, I have had four creditors attempt to sue me. Three went away after I answered their summons. They never filed their lawsuits. Probably too expensive for them. The only one that followed through with it was for a low amount elegible for conciliation court. An inexpensive venue to file in. I allowed them a default judgement and they have been attempting to collect from me by trying to scare me. They send me threatening letters about immediate garnishment and asset seizure even though they haven't had the judgement docketed to district court or filed for a writ of execution yet. Both are prerequisites before garnishment or asset seizure. Look up your particular states rules of civil of procedure or better yet go ask an attorney. Pileated should seek one out as soon as possible as practicing law without a license is a felony.

[Beeheery]

WOW! Over 1100 views....I created a monster! I'm gone for a day and see that there is over 5 pages of comments. Crazy! Anyways....I haven't had a chance to read each comment yet but wanted to let you all know that the weirdest thing happened today. Even though the collection agency won yesterday in court, they called me today and asked me if I wanted to settle for half?????? Why in the hell would they only ask for half when they are now legally entitled to the full amount of the debt???? It sounds REALLY fishy to me. The only thing I can think of is that maybe they know I have almost no $$ in my checking and know that they can't get anything so they make it sound like I'm getting a deal??? Oh...and I might add....this is AFTER I sent the DV letter stating to NOT contact me by phone. They obviously don't give a damn. These people are a bunch of freaking clowns. Well, I'm off to make some popcorn so I have something to much on while reading all these comments. LOL.

[blondeinmn]

They offered to settle for half because collecting a judgement is often very difficult. Just a precaution but when you talk to them on the phone do not give them any information even inadvertantly. I spoke to my judgement creditor last week. I want to buy some more time before I file so I attempted to settle with them. I offered $100.00 per month on a $2000.00 judgement. They asked questions about my employment, assets, children and just about everything else. I wouldn't give them any information. They told me they wouldn't allow a payment plan unless I gave them all of this information so they could determine what I could afford to pay. I told them I considered me to be the best judge of what I could afford as I am the one with $650,000.00 of debt. They agreed to the payment plan and promised no further collection attempts as long as I sent the $100.00 every month. Today, I recieved a notice of intent to garnish wages. They list my employer as my previous one. Maybe I was confused when they questioned me last week and I told them my old employer not my current one, silly me. Well, it's not valid anyways as they haven't followed proper procedure.

[blondeinmn]

One more thing that I almost forgot. They told me that if they reported the judgement to the credit reporting agencies it could negatively affect my credit score. Uh-oh. I asked them if I made my payments for the judgement on time every month if it would help my credit score. They told me "quite possibly". I promised him it would never be late and maybe sometimes early as I wanted their help to rebuild my credit. I checked my credit last week to see who was checking up on me. Is a credit score of 365 even possible?

[tigergem]

One more thing that I almost forgot. They told me that if they reported the judgement to the credit reporting agencies it could negatively affect my credit score. Uh-oh. I asked them if I made my payments for the judgement on time every month if it would help my credit score. They told me "quite possibly". I promised him it would never be late and maybe sometimes early as I wanted their help to rebuild my credit. I checked my credit last week to see who was checking up on me. Is a credit score of 365 even possible?

lol. Now that is funny. You know the judgment on your credit report comes from public records and not the creditor. They have no say so in it after the CRAs get wind of the judgment from court records. That is also the means they would use to verify it if you disputed the entry. And all you would end up with is a paid judgment on your credit report if you paid the settlement. Big whoop. I also seriously doubt a collection agency would bother to report your on time settlement payments. Unless you could get them to sign an agreement to that effect. I have heard of also negotiating your credit report with a settlement, but usually with the original creditor, not a collection agency.

[blondeinmn]

My intent was not to protect my credit. At this point I couldn't care less. I also don't intend to pay them anything. I am just trying to buy some more time as time is my friend. I have assets that are exempt as far as bankruptcy is concerned but could be siezed by a judgement creditor. I would probably get them back but it might cause me some discomfort and inconvienance. I figured if I could point them in the wrong direction I could gain myself additional time for my chapter 7. Did I forget to mention that I told the judgement creditor I wanted a payment plan so I wouldn't get garnished? That the employment they have on record for me is a golf course I worked at in 1998? That this golf course was purchased in 2003, a new golf course was built with different owners, a different name and surrounded with McMansions financed with subprime mortgages? That I might have confirmed this employment information during our conversation? I don't remember, he made me so confused and nervous. Maybe they can serve the writ of garnishment to the first tee ball washer.

[AngelinaCat]

ALL RIGHT, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. THIS THREAD IS CLOSED.