Court this am-what a freaking joke that was....

[Beeheery]

To make a long story short, I had my pre-trial hearing today for a 4K + debt that I was being sued for from a collection agency. They had ZERO proof it was mine. I sent a DV letter that they did not respond to. I went almost knowing I would win- and instead lost. They won because they provided some BS "bill of sale" that had NO NAME AND NO ACCOUNT NUMBER on it. What a bunch of crap that is. I can't believe I wasted my time and no wonder these a-holes sue everyone, they win everytime. Apparently I can file a motion to vacate judgment or something but apparently that is something I have to file on my own, pay filing fees for and at this point, I'm not even going to bother because I am sure it will be shot down immediately. I guess I am going to have to file sooner than later now so that they can't freeze my checking account. I am so mad it's not even funny. Sorry....just needed to vent.

[ready2file]

What state are you in??

[Beeheery]

South FL.

[pileated]

I had the same experience a few years ago and I was pretty sure after watching the court proceedings all morning, that the judge was either in cahoots with the lawyers, or was lazy and just perfunctorily processing cases.

It is easy to get away with this. Appeals are expensive and few debtors can afford them or do successfully handle them pro se.

In my case, if I did not pay the amount due within 30 days, I would be put in jail for contempt of court. Period. It is de facto debtor's prison. There were lots of debtors in the courtroom who were in handcuffs after having been arrested in the middle of the night.

[Lee123]

In my case, if I did not pay the amount due within 30 days, I would be put in jail for contempt of court. Period. It is de facto debtor's prison. There were lots of debtors in the courtroom who were in handcuffs after having been arrested in the middle of the night.

Good grief, that still happens?!? That seems so... medieval. I don't know how this whole process works with collecting debts. When I received a letter from NFCU that basically said they were in the works of starting a lawsuit against me I didn't know what to expect. I've only been served once (for my divorce) and that was at home. I had all these horrible images of them giving me a subpoena in public in front of family and friends.

I was going to wait until later in the summer to file, but decided to do it earlier. Filed a week after my NFCU letter... really did not want to go to court more than necessary.

[Majakat]

What was the agency? Who was the original debt with?

That really stinks!

[NHC]

Yeah...but did you tell them you're unemployed?? That might have taken a little breeze out of their sails...

I have a few retired military buddies left in Florida and they're saying things are getting worse down there....one said that only 1 in 8 persons has a job down there?? These guys I know have no worries though...they work for the prison system...apparently business is pretty brisk for them!

[Beeheery]

Hey NHC- was just about to email you. Yep-told them I am and have been unemployed for YEARS because of medical issues. It didn't matter at all. I just cannot freaking believe it. There was nothing at all linking me to the debt except a name and (1) credit card statement. No signature, no original contract, no paper trail, nothing. Thanks so much for your help though. You kept me sane yesterday and gave me the balls to go today. So....whatever. Can't change a damn thing I guess. Law firm was Andreu & Palma. Bunch of disgusting losers. Oh well....they won't be getting a dime from me when I file so I guess it's not the end of the world. Just mad that I basically didn't have a chance in hell with these people today.

[NHC]

I tole ya....bunch of limey slimy snakes....they don't give a rip....their sole goal is to collect as much money as they can regardless of anything (in my opinion anyway)....

[music12]

one reason i filed was that a judge was in cahoots with some lawyers who got a judgment against me in the 6 figures when i owed absolutely nothing. i could see that judge putting me in jail just for the heck of it. so i filed bk and thankfully got that judge and lawyers off my back (though i have to tell you, i was terrified they would object to my bk, in which case i was hoping the bk court maybe won't be in cahoots with them but i really didn't know).

then i read about some guy in a divorce proceeding who the judge "found" lied about his assets. they said he had 2 million that he was supposed to give to his ex wife in a divorce settlement and he said he didn't have it. the judge hired an investigator to go after the money and couldn't find it anywhere. instead of saying that perhaps the guy was telling the truth, they left him in jail for - sit down for this - 14 years for "contempt". he finally got habeas corpus from a federal court releasing him. 14 years, no kidding.

some thing are totally unbelievable, and judges have way too much power.

[WhatMoney]

I guess I am going to have to file sooner than later now so that they can't freeze my checking account. I am so mad it's not even funny. Sorry....just needed to vent.

May be more important to protect your checking account funds by withdrawing the money and going to prepaid debit cards or cash. Once the judge signs the judgment order they can garnish your checking account within days with no advance notice to you, if they can find it.

Also, the bank will usually charge you a "legal fee" for responding to the writ of garnishment from the judgment creditor. That fee could be anywhere from $50 to $150 charged against your checking account, even if there is no money left to give to the creditor. If you can't cover the bank fees they can close your account, send it to collections, and report you to Chexsystems.

[WhatMoney]

In my case, if I did not pay the amount due within 30 days, I would be put in jail for contempt of court. Period. It is de facto debtor's prison. There were lots of debtors in the courtroom who were in handcuffs after having been arrested in the middle of the night.

You cannot be held in contempt of court for simply not paying a debt, with or without a judgment. The civil reason for contempt of court is usually for failure to appear at a required hearing such as a debtors exam. Someone avoiding child support or evading tax payments might also get in trouble by ignoring a civil court order.

I can't imagine "debtors in the courtroom in handcuffs after being arrested in the middle of the night". What country was this in? Are you sure it wasn't an overnight drug raid and the accused were appearing in court on criminal charges?

Really, I hope no one with simple unsecured credit card debt, a civil offense, takes your story seriously.

[music12]

technically it is true that you cannot be held in contempt for simply not paying a debt. technically, a judge has to decide, first, that you do have the money but are willfully refusing to pay. to reach such a decision, a judge simply has to decide that you are not credible when you say you do not have money. the judge, as the official "fact finder", has discretion to believe or not believe you. if the judge believes you do have the money but are refusing to pay, the judge then finds you in contempt and puts you in jail to force you to stop lying and pay up.

so, technically, there are no debtors-prisons, only prisons for those that a judge decides are willfully refusing to pay. and given that judges often don't seem to need proof for anything as the OP described, i wouldn't be surprised if people end up getting jailed simply because they really do not have money to pay.

i would close all my bank accounts, then file, and then get back to normal.

[tigergem]

There was nothing at all linking me to the debt except a name and (1) credit card statement. No signature, no original contract, no paper trail, nothing.

I knew a guy in California who lost a lawsuit against Discover with exactly the same sort of "evidence" as that. Pretty amazing. I would think they would have to prove that the debt is yours. Apparently, not really. Kind of makes me wonder what all the DV hoopla is about, if they don't have to have it in court.

[music12]

i guess they think it's enough that they happen to have your name and address. they might as well open the phone book, copy some names and addresses, and start suing random people. they would be just as successful. what's happening is that the courts just decide to believe them, period, without checking anything.