Car Operating Costs: IRS stand vs. Sched J

[Moneypenny]

Hi,

In my region the operation costs for 2 vehicles according to national Standards is $472

My real costs are considerably higher. Is this a problem on Sched J? Going to raise an eyebrow? We are under median on means test.

Here is my breakdown, on a super duper conservative level.

276 insurance on two cars (same insurance for years, recent speeding tickets, still too high?)

40 parking (parking for work only)

240 gasoline

20 registration taxes and inspections (probably more)

30 maintenence and repairs (this is way, way too low: I have a 15 yr old 115K vehicle)

Even at these conservative numbers (to my mind) my operating costs are $606, over the standards by $134, and that's not counting that I might need repairs on my vehicles sometimes.

Is this 606 going to be a problem? Can I put down more, because realistically I really do need more?

Is anything about my numbers here too high or low?

thanks,

MMP

[helpmeout]

I believe the Schedule J had a separate place for auto insurance, I know that mine is listed separately from the auto expense for gas and maintenance. My car payment is also listed separately.

Your attorney will go over this schedule with you before you file, as you complete it, make a list of questions to ask when s/he does.

[Moneypenny]

I dont have money for a lawyer right now so i need answers on this board to help me figure things out and to sleep at night.

I know what is on a Sched J. My question is that when I add up the sched J expenses for operating a car (and which are included under operating costs in IRS standards) it winds up way higher than the standards. Is this going to be a problem? Will the trustees raise and eyebrow about that? Anyone with suspicions, knowledge, or experience?

thanks!

MMP

[momofthree]

We're in the same region (CA eastern), and we put down $475 on operating expenses and $170 on car insurance for 3 cars (separate line). Attny did ask why it's so high and we explained that dh commutes 120 miles per day, so he said that was fine.

Your insurance is really high, do you have a teenager in the house? When was the last time you shopped around for rates?

[Moneypenny]

I took a closer look at my bills and my car insurance is 288 for 2 cars. I have three speeding tickets recently. Is it still very high? I have not shopped around because I am not looking to lower my sched j expenses. I have this car ins rate naturally by sticking with my long standing policy and getting caught speeding. No fudging with the BK laws.

But still, is it too high? will it be questioned? does a trustee demand that you go out and shop for a lower rate? If so, can they be sure you will get it? This worries me: i was counting on this insurance as being a sure thing.

So mom, all your gas, parking, tolls, maintanence, repairs etc. was 475 on three cars? That puts insurance + your expenses at a total of 645, right where mine are. That's encouraging, but you had three cars.

Anyone know if my expenses above are out of line? The expenses above dont even include any significant maintenance and no repairs.

MMp

[Moneypenny]

looked closer at typical insurance rates and 288 does not seem so high, given my three speeding and my wife's one red light violation (as in traffic light, not the other). Also there is gap insurance in there, have to call the Company to see what portion that is.
I might be able to get 235 or something but that's not a big deal for a trustee, is it? Or am I wrong about rates? keep in mind there is a financed new car on this and i have to get the more expensive kind of coverage (forget what its called).

Still wondering about all the other questions...

thanks!
MMP

[momofthree]

I took a closer look at my bills and my car insurance is 288 for 2 cars. I have three speeding tickets recently. Is it still very high? I have not shopped around because I am not looking to lower my sched j expenses. I have this car ins rate naturally by sticking with my long standing policy and getting caught speeding. No fudging with the BK laws.

But still, is it too high? will it be questioned? does a trustee demand that you go out and shop for a lower rate? If so, can they be sure you will get it? This worries me: i was counting on this insurance as being a sure thing.

So mom, all your gas, parking, tolls, maintanence, repairs etc. was 475 on three cars? That puts insurance + your expenses at a total of 645, right where mine are. That's encouraging, but you had three cars.

Anyone know if my expenses above are out of line? The expenses above dont even include any significant maintenance and no repairs.

MMp

Honestly, our expenses are more than that, but that's all we could realistically fit into our budget and still support the ch. 13 payment. We're hoping to sell our truck within the next year and that will bring down the expenses. We don't pay parking or tolls.

I don't know that the trustee will question your insurance, but after you file, you may want to shop around to hopefully lower it for your own sake.

I know that there are many different variables that go into insurance calculations, but we are insuring 3 cars in central CA ('03 sedan, '04 pickup, '10 minivan) at maximum coverage (100/300). Dh drives 120 miles per day to work and has had 3 speeding tickets in the last 18 months. But then again, I have a perfect driving record. We pay $170/mo thru allstate, before we bought the new van we were paying $110/mo.

[loser104]

I'm also curious as to how you are supposed to compute auto repair costs. Do you have to show what you have spent in the past 6 months and then average that out? Or do you just take a guess and say I think I will end up spending about $200/month on maintenance/repairs..........

How the heck do you quantify car repairs on a used car? I could spend nothing for a 6 month stretch, and then all of a sudden drop $1500 on struts, brakes, and a/c problems............what monthly amount is acceptable or flat out too high or unreasonable???

[newbie2]

I'm also curious as to how you are supposed to compute auto repair costs. Do you have to show what you have spent in the past 6 months and then average that out? Or do you just take a guess and say I think I will end up spending about $200/month on maintenance/repairs..........

How the heck do you quantify car repairs on a used car? I could spend nothing for a 6 month stretch, and then all of a sudden drop $1500 on struts, brakes, and a/c problems............what monthly amount is acceptable or flat out too high or unreasonable???

We looked at what we had spent in the previous 12 months, then divided it by 12 for the monthly average.

[Moneypenny]

thanks for everyone else jumping in here. I really need some help here.

1. on the insurance rate i went to carinsurance.com (i think it was) that gave me multiple quotes and the cheapest was just 235, around my own, and this was for 30/50 coverage, mine is probably higher. So it seems I am in line here. I wonder if the trustee will raise an eyebrow, or is used to some people having violations on their record. Can someone else jump in here and give some perspective on my insurance rates? Are they too high for the trustee?

288 (one new car, one owned used, 2 drivers, 4 tickets)

2. I suspect the lawyer (if you have one, I dont) can tell you what you can put for auto repairs. I dont know if you have to have reciepts though. I am in the same boat as newbie. I haven't had a major repair recently and maintenance is done by an underground mechanic for cheap, but I could get hit with 2000 at any time.

thanks mom! I understand completely about the expense of vehicles-- thats why i am asking. what is allowed seems way less than what it really takes.

MMP