Motion for Relief of Stay -- Insane

[Jengo]

Oh ok. Gotcha. I was having trouble getting my head around all of this. It's quite a convoluted situation, and doesn't quite all make sense. If this was a social service organization of some type that provided your family with assistance with your child, one would think their attorneys would be more sophisticated than this situation portrays. What are they trying to say you owe them money for anyway?

They are saying that I owe them for legal fees which somehow I racked up 50,000 in 3 months

[tigergem]

Did you have a retainer or fee agreement with them?

[Jengo]

Did you have a retainer or fee agreement with them?

Yeah. 250 per hour for atty and 75 per hour for advocate

[tigergem]

So, this is a law firm then, and they filed a Motion for Relief from Stay? What kind of attorneys are they? Gimme a break. Heck even I know better and I'm just a barefootin, truck drivin' hillbilly. No wonder your bk attorney isn't worried. Neither should you be. I mean, yeah, you are going to have to defend this, but you know there are laws against filing frivolous documents in bankruptcy court. Uh yeah. I would hit them back for sanctions for that. Mention that to your attorney. Sit back. Relax. Enjoy.

[music12]

if these are lawyers trying to get legal fees from you, then not only should their motion be denied, they should also be punished by the bk court for violating the bk rules. atty fees are dischargeable, period. and attorneys know that, so these crooks are knowingly harrassing you without legal ground. i would suggest you ask your bk atty to call them up and say that unless they withdraw their motion, your bk atty will not only object to their motion for relief from stay, but also file a motion for sanctions against them with the court and with the state bar.

as to your other family members, i am afraid that anybody who is not filing for bk may be subjected to having to fight them in court, even if everything they say is groundless.

[tigergem]

if these are lawyers trying to get legal fees from you, then not only should their motion be denied, they should also be punished by the bk court for violating the bk rules. atty fees are dischargeable, period. and attorneys know that, so these crooks are knowingly harrassing you without legal ground. i would suggest you ask your bk atty to call them up and say that unless they withdraw their motion, your bk atty will not only object to their motion for relief from stay, but also file a motion for sanctions against them with the court and with the state bar.

as to your other family members, i am afraid that anybody who is not filing for bk may be subjected to having to fight them in court, even if everything they say is groundless.

Yeah, especially if only one person signed the fee agreement. But who knows? Maybe the person who signed it agreed to commit the entire family to indentured servitude ad infinitum. You really have to know what you are signing lol.

[Jengo]

So, this is a law firm then, and they filed a Motion for Relief from Stay? What kind of attorneys are they? Gimme a break. Heck even I know better and I'm just a barefootin, truck drivin' hillbilly. No wonder your bk attorney isn't worried. Neither should you be. I mean, yeah, you are going to have to defend this, but you know there are laws against filing frivolous documents in bankruptcy court. Uh yeah. I would hit them back for sanctions for that. Mention that to your attorney. Sit back. Relax. Enjoy.

They have many different areas. This one in particular was for a personal injury of sorts. My attorney hasn't told me much and his not being worried. I'm worried though. These people are corrupt big time. I'm going to run it by him with sanctions as well as what music stated.

[Jengo]

Yeah, especially if only one person signed the fee agreement. But who knows? Maybe the person who signed it agreed to commit the entire family to indentured servitude ad infinitum. You really have to know what you are signing lol.

The retainer was signed by me only and was in regards to me and representing me only. No family stuff. BUT when they filed the lawsuit including my husband in on it, they claimed in regards to going after him that according to family law they could because it was in support of a minor (our son) which apparently gave them the right to include him on the lawsuit as well.

[music12]

how can the attorneys sue you for personal injury? it doesn't make sense. you said it's legal fees, that's not personal injury.

sometimes a husband and wife are considered a single legal entity, but not always. if your agreement was only between you and these people, then i don't see how they can argue their way into including your husband. but anyway, you said your husband will be filing as well, right? so they'll be out of luck.

[Jengo]

how can the attorneys sue you for personal injury? it doesn't make sense. you said it's legal fees, that's not personal injury.

The case that the prior legal representation was for my case and a personal injury. Their suit against us was for the debt owing to them.

sometimes a husband and wife are considered a single legal entity, but not always. if your agreement was only between you and these people, then i don't see how they can argue their way into including your husband. but anyway, you said your husband will be filing as well, right? so they'll be out of luck.

When I talked with my atty as well as his atty as the same BK firm has been hired in both of our cases (although husband has not filed yet), they stated that given it was for our son and support of our son that they would be able to go after him. But his atty when he retained him, as I was there as well, said that we could fight them and litigate it in the BK arena and it would be cheaper rather than doing it in the civil arena. The time period to put an answer into their lawsuit has come and gone and there was never an answer to it because neither one of us could afford to hire an attorney to represent us so they would get a default judgment. With my stay, the suit is just sitting idle right now in regards to him. I don't think they know the BK laws very well and that they can still move in regards to him but they haven't unless it is different in CA. I do admit I owe them money but the amount they're claiming I owe them I do have issues with because of the exorbitant amount over a 3 month period.

[Jengo]

Thank you everyone for responding when I was stressed out majorly. Everyone helped a lot. Spoke with my BK attorney as well as one of the Chp 7 post petition specialists that works in his office and both told me not to worry about it and to calm down. They told me that it would not be necessary for me to even appear nor gather evidence supporting my side which I've already been doing. So now all that work I did is nicely packed away in a box with no more stress!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently this corrupt group of people are attempting two motions in one and what they're claiming in it is just ridiculous. Even the post petition specialist was like, what do they think they're doing. Anyway, they're attempting to get relief of stay in order to go after my husband, attempting to require me to come in and provide evidence showing that I can't support my BK petition (mind you, they've lied to the BK Court in their motion in order for the court to review my case, and asking for an order from the Court BARRING everyone not connected with the lawsuit from ever filing on the claim which is just insane like you wouldn't believe. It is impossible for them to do this. Oh, and they're also attempting to get an order from the Court Barring my husband from filing for BK on the claim ever. Okay, sure. They don't know his financial situation, God forbid, he or anyone else becomes ill or loses their job or what have you and they can never file for BK on the claim. Insane. I find it interesting that they think so highly of themselves that they expect the Court to give them rights over even the IRS does not have because you can file on taxes and get them discharged if it is 3 years or older.

I wouldn't put it past these fools to attempt to go after my family members saying they're responsible for the debt because it was in support of a family member which is crazy because there is no legal document showing that my extended family is a guardian to my son and responsible for him and his care, nor did any family member give the attorney money. For all they know, my family was providing money to help with his numerous doctor appointments and not the attorney. I just find it to be hilarious that they would even attempt this and threaten this as if to say, yeah, we'll go after your entire family. Well, that's interesting. So does that mean every SINGLE credit card I used to pay for my son's doctor's appointments, his hospitalization, etc., since it would be considered in support of a minor would be able to go after my extended family members for payment? Whatever. I am the only one that signed the retainer agreement and it was in regards to representing me for my son and that's it. It wasn't inclusive of my extended family, including 5th cousins or what have you. I can see the husband being responsible because we are married, community debt state, and in support of our son because we both have guardianship of him and custody.

I would be most interested to see how they would be able to prove that my extended family, who don't have guardianship over my son and not responsible for the care of him, would be responsible for the debt they're claiming they're owed. I'm actually expecting a lawsuit to come to the house in regards to my family member that is staying with me. If it does, they're going to be in for one hell of an uphill battle and fight. If they attempt this and claiming that my extended family is responsible also for the fees, then that would mean every single credit card I used to help my son and his medical care would also be able to go after my entire family. There is absolutely no evidence showing that they helped me pay these A holes. I borrowed money from them and it was primarily for doctors and so forth. It was never to pay the atty or the advocate.

Would they be able to claim this as a creditor and filing a lawsuit against extended family members and them being responsible for the debt? I would imagine no, it would be impossible. They didn't sign crap. It was only me. They never made a payment to them, etc. Plus since I borrowed money from family to help me with my son and they're being a creditor and having to be listed on my BK petition, it shows legally that they are NOT responsible for the child and obligated to support him, especially if I am filing BK on them unfortunately because they are a creditor that I owe.

Also my husband is going to be filing his Chp 13 BK in the next week or so, definitely the first week of April, and since he will have to reorganize and pay over 5 years, they won't be able to file a lawsuit for the amount they say they're owed if they try to go after family members because they won't know how much they are to get paid over that five years. If they do attempt it, it's a form of fraud because they're getting paid twice or attempting to get paid twice on one debt. These people are stupid. I so can't wait for the State Bar complaint goes through and what the outcome is going to be. Honestly, with what I know, I am the last person they want to keep barking up the tree. They did some really unethical stuff and was one of the reasons for terminating their services aside from them butchering my case.

At any rate, thank you, thank you, thank you, everyone for responding. It helped tremendously and no longer all stressed out over this. Atty and his assistant said don't worry about it, no need to go to hearing, no need to gather supporting documents !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I feel comfortable with this because the law firm I hired is the largest BK law firm in California and most of the partners are all in the same family and are brothers. Obviously they know what they're doing as all of them are BK attorneys...LOL I'm not too worried of malpractice, etc., because they were very thorough when I met them and not a complex case at all. Hell, Chp 7 with absolutely no assets, not even a savings account.

Ty!!!!

[olivies]

Honestly, with what I know, I am the last person they want to keep barking up the tree. They did some really unethical stuff and was one of the reasons for terminating their services aside from them butchering my case.

Just remember, they don't have to be ethical to be legal.
Sounds like quite a smarmy bunch of characters. And it sounds like you have a lot going on personally in your life without people just being complete....oh, what's the word my kids would use....butt munchers. LOL

Hang in there. Hope it all goes well for you.

[music12]

that's good, your bk lawyers are making sense.

just be careful when your husband files ch13 - you'll have to think whether he needs to list this debt there. i would think not because that would make it easier for them to get some of the ch13 payments, which you don't want. on the other hand, some people say even disputed amounts should be listed so as to make sure everything under the sun is discharged. your lawyers would know best what to do.

[Jengo]

that's good, your bk lawyers are making sense.

just be careful when your husband files ch13 - you'll have to think whether he needs to list this debt there. i would think not because that would make it easier for them to get some of the ch13 payments, which you don't want. on the other hand, some people say even disputed amounts should be listed so as to make sure everything under the sun is discharged. your lawyers would know best what to do.

Oh, no, he is listing it on his Chp 13. As far as I know right now, he has substantial back taxes. He makes quite a bit of money. This lawsuit although disputed is going into his Chp 13. I do owe them money but what they are claiming in the amount that is owing is very very suspicious to me. They will get paid but I'm not sure how much.

Music, you seem to know quite a bit. I posted again tonight about closing a checking account and savings account that was usually at zero anyway about 3 weeks or so after I filed my BK. This is what I wrote:

Yikes, I was reading a bit on the forum about the closing of accounts. Wow, maybe I messed up as I didn't ask my attorney about closing these accounts after my filing. I know you are supposed to report any closed accounts or open accounts on the day that you file. But I didn't know it was to also continue until after the discharge.

This is my scenario and how this is going to affect my case ultimately. I have a good reason to close the accounts. The accounts were bare minimum anyway and only had 12 dollars total combined in checking account and savings account. What prompted me to close the accounts are this and can tell the Trustee at my creditor meeting on April 1st. I just hope he doesn't frown on this. Why would he waste his time on frying small fish as there are other bigger fish to fry and I assume that the BK Trustees are more interested in catching someone who is intentionally hiding stuff, fraud, etc.

This is what happened. I kept watching my checking account and savings account although they were totally inactive for almost 3 weeks after I filed Chapter 7. As I watched my accounts and being on a very very limited income, I didn't want to chance the fees involved in keeping the accounts open and also I found charges from an unknown company that I couldn't find and reach that was charging fees to my checking account every month of I think 20 bucks. I tried to locate the company that was taking this money every month and couldn't find them to stop and find out who they were. Since I could not stop the automatic payments on my checking account, I didn't want to continue racking up overdraft fees and paying for something I didn't authorize. I closed out my savings account because of the fees also involved with it. I closed both accounts out about 3 or 4 weeks after filing my Chapter 7.

I hope this doesn't screw anything up.

I really hope I didn't screw something up by closing these two accounts. It was nothing big, 12 bucks between the two that went for gas for my car. I also have another question. I withdrew about 800 or so as I've been terrified that my accounts will be frozen or any money that is in there will be taken from me so I withdrew this amount of 800 to make sure I have money to buy food, etc. My habits have changed a bit since I filed. I've been giving money to the family member that lives with me to pay utility bills, etc., as I don't want to chance what little money that I do have being taken and then I am literally in the dark when lights are turned off because I didn't have the money in the bank to pay it if I didn't have money in the checking account. Is the Trustee going to frown on this? Will they suspect something and ask me to produce any evidence, etc?

I'm assuming no red flags have gone up as I haven't received anything asking me to produce anything at the upcoming creditors meeting on April 1st which is this Thursday. One of the post petition people at the law office sent me an email and said they will let me know if anything comes up but didn't explain further what this meant and this was about a week ago. If the Trustee was questioning something, would he notify my lawyer and tell him that he would like to check more in detail my habits and validity of my petition before the creditors meeting. The new bank account that I opened as been bare minimum anyway with payroll going through and showing very little going into the account with pay from work. There are three areas that the Trustee may question but not sure and that was 150 bucks to my sister for my dad's bday. Then $200 check I wrote to my husband for fixing my car. I had to borrow money from him and then paid him back because my car broke down. And then an 800 withdraw for living expenses and then a $300 withdraw again for living expenses and this has been since Feb 15th or so. Again, the 800 and 300 I took out was because I was terrified what little money I do have would be taken.

Anyway, I'm just getting a bit worried and maybe things the Trustee is going to look at and wonder and then putting me on the spot. I dread at the thought that the Trustee is going to ask me why I filed and why I got into debt and OMG, it's been such a hard 1.5 years that I may very well break out into tears on the stand. It's going to be really hard keeping it together and explaining what happened. I'm hoping since I haven't heard anything from my lawyer and the Trustee hasn't contacted him or what have you that so far so good type thing. I am sure that he has looked at my banking habits and so forth and sees all the rent checks going through, etc.

I don't know. I just want all this to be over with. I know you're not a BK atty but you seem to be knowledgeable about this and maybe be able to put me at ease a bit.

Always thank you

[Jengo]

Just remember, they don't have to be ethical to be legal.
Sounds like quite a smarmy bunch of characters. And it sounds like you have a lot going on personally in your life without people just being complete....oh, what's the word my kids would use....butt munchers. LOL

Hang in there. Hope it all goes well for you.

Oh, no, what they did was extremely unethical as I later found out that ultimately lead to their being disbarred for five years and fines ta boot. They got busted for fraud in front of the Securities Exchange Commission. I had retained the firm 5 months before the investigation results went public. At that time, I had no reason to search for them on the internet. But at a mediation and they attempted something which raised a serious eyebrow, I sat on it for about a week and then started to investigate it and wow is what I found. Trust me, the State Bar complaint and what I told them and they will investigate will probably be enough to result in fines and/or disbarment. Given the severity of the complaint, I first had to make sure that they couldn't retailiate against me for it. Thankfully, they can't so I have a bit of peace of mind in that regard. I'm just waiting for the final results to be told to me so that way I may be able to present it to the BK court when my husband files his Chp 13 and their charges being dismissed or what have you from his filing. I'm not sure of this though.

To my understanding, the State Bar is not making a move yet into their investigation until they know how to proceed in regards to one area of the e5 areas that I put the complaint in. I'm assuming that once the State Bar begins their investigation these crooked people will stay clear of me. They won't be able to file a lawsuit on it, etc. Get any phone calls or what have you from them after my discharge....I'll call the State Bar and file another complaint for harassment.