IRS Standards Food etc.

[Moneypenny]

I am trying to figure out my status on schedule J

I noticed under the national standards

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=104627,00.html

that there is a category, "miscellaneous" which for my 4 person family is $235

so, does this figure in the schedule j at all?
my food cost is said to be $752 which is way, way, too low. that is mac and cheese low where I live (CA)
i could really use that extra miscellaneous 235, as we spend more than $1000 on food for 4, eating healthy foods

i am also confused because on this standards page it says its for IRS only, not bankruptcy, and directs you to the UST page, which will ultimately direct you back to this page.

thanks so much, it really helps to get a hand here,

Mr. MP

[Moneypenny]

and do i need reciepts? cause there's no way I can afford our $244 in clothing expense according to the standards. We just dont have that kind of money and never did.

might i need reciepts for the food if i want to claim over the 752? but then not for the clothing if i stick to the standards? can i go over the $752?

[momofthree]

Just put down the $244 for clothing anyway. They won't know that you spend it on food instead. That goes for transportation expenses, medical expenses, home improvement expenses, etc. Just because it's put into a particular slot on your official budget doesn't mean that they are going to make you spend that much each month on each category--they don't have the time or manpower to enforce it or track you that closely.

You can probably come up with the extra grocery money by spending less in other categories, this is called "padding your budget."

Also, check out http://hotcouponworld.com/forums/index.php for tips on how to save money at the grocery store. I easily save at least 50% on groceries every single month, usually more than that. I actually think we're lucky to live in CA because we have so much fresh produce and meat available to us at reasonable prices due to our strong agricultural base.

My mom is out of state and actually complains about spending $2 on a head of lettuce that then goes bad 2 days after she bought it because it had to be shipped in from CA. Whereas I can go down to Costco and buy a 3-head pack of lettuce for $2.19 and it'll last in my fridge for 2-3 weeks before going bad. I've always taken that for granted until she moved out of state and began complaining about the costliness & lack of fresh produce.

[nerves]

If you don't have a deep freezer, you may think about getting one as it is a good investment and can save you money. The extra fifty cents and dollar here and there adds up very quickly. The key is to continue to rotate and keep track of what you have in the freezer and as staples. We plan meals out a week at a time and that helps too. For the two of us, we spend about $200-$250 a month for groceries. This even allows us to have a nice steak about 3-4 times a month.

Come summertime, our grocery bill will drop as I have extra bacon, burger, brats, etc in the freezer as wintertime is the time to stock up (out of season items). Come mid to late summer, I will buy more roasts, ham, turkey for winter as they tend to be cheaper during the summer. There is nothing like IA sweet corn and we freeze quite a bit to get through the winter. I keep about 4-6 weeks worth of meat and frozen items in the freezer. On top of it, I have a white board that I keep track of what is in it. It makes it so much easier to keep track when it is time to make out the grocery list. I check out all the grocery ads each week and I do use coupons. The key with coupons is only cut out the ones for products you use. If you don't use it, don't cut it out or buy the product just because you have a coupon for it (coupons are a marketing tool but use it your advantage and not the manufacturer).

Our local gas station is where I get the best price on milk, juice, butter and bread and sometimes produce. I save about 50-60 cents on a pound of butter and a quarter or so each on the other items.

Instead of going out for ice cream, I now buy it at the grocery store and save over half of going to the ice cream shop. I am sure we will go to the ice cream shop this summer but instead of once a week, it will be about once a month.

I was worried how we were going to live on the budgeted amount allowed as well. We had gotten use to eating out most of the time. Now that hubby is home (looking for a job) he has dinner started before I get home from work. It is much healthier and easier on the pocket book. When we knew it was time to give up on the business and file BK, we got a good and hard lesson with budgeting and making it work. Saving on groceries leaves us extra money for other things and the unexpected. It took some patience and determination to make it work. And, one more tip, Walmart is not usually the cheapest place to buy groceries (at least in my area). They want you to believe they are, but overall, I have found most of the items at the grocery store to be cheaper and the meat is much better quality.

Good luck to you.

[konked]

IRS Standards Food etc

When we used IRS standards the court said "prove it." They said just because the IRS standard gives an amount they DO NOT have to accept it. We had to show bank statements that showed debit card transactions, they accepted that. They also would not give the IRS transportation standard without reciepts equalling the amount.

Good Luck.

[justbroke]

When we used IRS standards the court said "prove it." They said just because the IRS standard gives an amount they DO NOT have to accept it.

You must have been under-the-median and that would require proof. For an over-the-median, the IRS standard is both the floor (minimum) and the ceiling (maximum) when it comes to amounts.

I don't know why you were raked over the coals, but this is not common practice. Most Trustees publish -- to attorneys -- a guide on what the acceptable expenses are for that particular District. Exceeding those amounts may require that you prove the expense.

I would say that your case is atypical. Did you file with an attorney? If so, why didn't he fight?

[Moneypenny]

thanks!

So does anyone know about that category on the IRS standards for "miscellaneous," is that a category that can be used in Sched j?

And what if I dont have reciepts (an under median ch7 case)? How far back are reciepts supposed to go? If someone decides to file quickly, how could they have reciepts if they didnt know they were going to file? (that's not me though, i just have not been spending, except food)

I know I could save money with coupons but just cant handle everything timewise, or that's how i feel. just bk and taxes is all i can handle (along with job and kids). i will go the coupon route eventually but i am not sure that's such a good idea pre-filing, especially if i need reciepts.

i am under median a little bit, but i just cant afford to buy all the things that would make my expenses match up with standards, especially not right now. i guess the money goes out in other ways. i dont know about you guys, but something always comes up. a dentist bill, a car break down, a problem with the house, etc. I know that's supposed to count but how can you put in your expenses that your car might need repairs in the future but not now, etc.? Things like that just keep coming up and i dont have reciepts for things that have not happened yet.

My house is way, way overdue for a new roof but i will never have the 10k to fix it if I am in a 13.

[tigergem]

When we used IRS standards the court said "prove it." They said just because the IRS standard gives an amount they DO NOT have to accept it. We had to show bank statements that showed debit card transactions, they accepted that. They also would not give the IRS transportation standard without reciepts equalling the amount.

Good Luck.

Wow, was that the judge or the trustee? That's really rough. I filed and gave my actual shopping expenses, and it was more than double the standards amount, and nobody blinked. I suppose they could see it in my bank account statements if they bothered to look that close, but they never asked me about it. And I was under median too.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

Having said that, I have since learned to cut way back in my shopping expenses to save money, so I am not spending that much any more. (Or maybe I am again. Since everything has gone up in price so dramatically in the past week or so. I'll have to take a look at that again.)

Having an emergency fund is more important to me than having my favorite brands every day. But up to the date of filing, I sure was spending what I said I was spending!

[liz417]

I just put all the amounts from IRS Guidelines in my petition even if my actual bill(s) didn't add up to that listed. Any expenses that I was over, I just saved my reciepts (I was over on transportation by $750) and was prepared to show proof if the Trustee questioned it....nothing was ever brought up. Before I even considered BK, I had cut back on all my expenses: food, tv, gas, utilities, clothing, etc., I just couldn't afford it. Once I knew I was going to file and I was over the median, I lived "normally", reinstalled cable tv, added back the home phone, watered the lawn (live on an acre property, all lawn ), purchased work clothing, etc., just to "pad" my budget and eliminate my disposable income.

[nerves]

Money - if you can give us your location, someone from that location may be able to give you a little more insight on what happened to them or seen what happened to others during their 341 meeting, etc. If you don't want to disclose state/district, that is okay.

[Moneypenny]

i am in sacramento, ca
is there any reason i should want to keep my location secret? just wondering...

[nerves]

Some people are private with disclosing their location. Some areas are much smaller and they want to disclose as little information about themselves as possible. This is understandable with such a sensitive and private issue.

[konked]

You must have been under-the-median and that would require proof. For an over-the-median, the IRS standard is both the floor (minimum) and the ceiling (maximum) when it comes to amounts.

I don't know why you were raked over the coals, but this is not common practice. Most Trustees publish -- to attorneys -- a guide on what the acceptable expenses are for that particular District. Exceeding those amounts may require that you prove the expense.

I would say that your case is atypical. Did you file with an attorney? If so, why didn't he fight?

Thanks again justbroke. I am still figuring out this format! My attorney was a "legal plan attorney" with a capped filing fee. Couple that with an agressive judge and trustee who operated totally different from all others in same district and well...that's what I got.

[konked]

Wow, was that the judge or the trustee? That's really rough. I filed and gave my actual shopping expenses, and it was more than double the standards amount, and nobody blinked. I suppose they could see it in my bank account statements if they bothered to look that close, but they never asked me about it. And I was under median too.

I'm sorry that happened to you.

Having said that, I have since learned to cut way back in my shopping expenses to save money, so I am not spending that much any more. (Or maybe I am again. Since everything has gone up in price so dramatically in the past week or so. I'll have to take a look at that again.)

Having an emergency fund is more important to me than having my favorite brands every day. But up to the date of filing, I sure was spending what I said I was spending!

Thanks/ this was largely the trustee but the trustee and the judge operated totally differnent than others in same district which really threw-off my attorney. Yea, we are going through the "skinny-up the budget" exercise too! Thank you.