Do you ever think that you are getting away with something?

[JackBondLove]

It seems that most of us are here because in the past we enjoyed spending some banks' money, and now we are playing the Chapter 7 card to simply walk away from paying back that money. The cynical side of me says that we and the banks simply entered into a business transaction, and it ended up not being a good investment for the banks. The ethical side of me says that we promised to pay, and unless we truly sell our assets (e.g., the exempt assets, including retirement accounts), we are being unethical - but then again the cynical side of me jumps in again and says that those same banks have been quite unethical (especially lately), so screw 'em.

[DeadManCrawling]

Simple math for me:

Loan on my house: $380k

Interest paid (10 years): $500k

Foreclosure 2009-10

Still owed at foreclosure: $380k

So, they got 500k in interest. I got NOT ONE DOLLAR ahead on that loan. Sure, I was dumb, but that should be illegal.

Guess who won? No, I don't feel bad.

Add the math on your cards, or car loans or house, or whatever. You probably have similar numbers somewhere.

[JackBondLove]

Well, using money is getting something, so you did get that.

[btbeme]

Well, here are my two cents worth on this question...

We are a month or two from filing a 7. Retained an attorney last week. We have about $105k in unsecured debt, plus a mortgage for $557,000 and a HELOC second for $82k on a house that is worth about $435k now. When we bought 4 years ago, we put down $180,000. Yes, we could afford it then, and we invested and saved and did everything with an eye on being responsible (no new cars, etc). Our jobs were secure, established, and great.

Fast-forward to now. My business failed after the housing crash. My wife took a 20% pay cut to stay employed. Though we paid cash for our vehicles, we will likely have to either surrender one or pay for part of it again to keep it (Hondas, not Mercedes, etc). The $180k we put down on the house evaporated, plus another $200k in equity. We used credit cards to stay afloat after the stock market tanked and took our investments down some 85% in a matter of hours.

I have never, EVER, claimed to be a victim of ANYTHING, but I can stand here and tell you that, after suffering health issues, sleepless nights, and even thoughts of suicide, I do not feel a bit bad about filing for Ch. 7. It took me many, many months to get there.

My turning point came when I visited a makeshift memorial to a police officer killed during a routine traffic stop - shot once in the head, dead before he hit the pavement. Just like me, he had a wife, two daughters, a house, cars, and was the same age as me. He was never going to go home again. And, while my next home will be smaller and less adorned than my current (almost bare, due to selling everything I can) home, I am still going to go home.

Getting away with anything? Yes, you bet I am. I am getting away with my sanity and my life, and those other things that are truly important to me - my wife and kids. All the rest is just "stuff." And believe me, I feel like I have paid for it twice - once with money, a second time with anguish.

Thank God we don't have debtor's prisons or Shaira Law in the United States.

[LostNFound]

This is probably the single most difficult thing to think about. I haven't technically filed yet, so I haven't actually decided if I've "gotten away with anything". But I would love to share that burning question hidden deep inside of me.....

Why do you think they did it? The banks? Why do you think that they allowed people like Deadmancrawling, myself and many others on this board to play with their money? Oh, that's right! We are "credit" worthy. Credit bought us a WHOLE lot of stuff!! So, if you have "credit" then you can play with their money, but never get ahead? Sounds like a good deal to me.

I guess I have an issue with this....I will take responsibility for my actions and I accept blame where it's due. However, I think that society needs to acknowledge that there are certain people in certain positions that we have expectations of them. They are on a pedestal (so to speak). Like, when you call the fire department...you expect them to put out fires. And when you are sick....you go to the doctor and you expect that he will try to make you feel better. And when you go to church....you expect your Pastor to preach the word of God. And you know, when you go to the bank and you talk to the banker....or the credit card company...and they check your credit and run the numbers and you expect that they are knowledgeable with money and working in your best interest.

I feel like I was taken advantage of by the banking industry in general as well as the credit card companies. I take ownership for my mistakes. But I never intentionally set out to mislead anyone, nor did I plan to fail. And I will pay for my mistakes. Bankruptcy is not a free ride. I will lose a lot of debt, but I will lose a lot of things that matter to me, to my children and to my livelihood.

I'm still waiting for the apology from the banks that lied to get the loans, stole from innocent people trying to make a difference in this world, and set people up to fail so that they could sit back and collect their income from the inflated interest rates and late fees charged. They were reckless when they allowed people to trust them, built up a great line of credit and then pulled out the rug that eventually corrupted the entire country until the credit balloon popped! People have lost their homes, their businesses and their dreams. And I bet they are waiting for their apology too.

[DeadManCrawling]

Well, using money is getting something, so you did get that.

I guess someone "used" money.

Since I paid 500k INTEREST and borrowed 380k, who used the money?

The lender got 500k interest, and still gets to resell the house for 200k.

So, they net 700k on their loan and I get wrecked credit, AFTER spending 500k.

I did okay for them. I guess.

Simple math.

Simple lessons.

Be the lender.

Not the debtor.

[LALADY]

I felt that way until one of my major creditors reniged on our contract despite my excellent credit, paying all monies due per the contract, and having never been late with any payment to any creditor. After numerous failed attempts to get them to abide by their contract, I became part of a class action suit (which will net me almost zero) and filed BK. Do I feel guilty? Suppose I might, if it weren't my tax dollars paying for their federal bailout. Sad part is they would have gotten paid, just like they always justed to, on time and in full.

[LALADY]

justed==used

[Flamingo]

Debt causes bankruptcy. No one ever expects to have to file bankruptcy. Briefly, if you have a life event such as a job loss, divorce, heart attack or anything that will disrupt your household income and eat up any savings, it is obvious one will not have funds to pay off thousands in credit cards or loans. Lots of folks take out insurance to make their mortgage and other payments if there is a job loss, medical issue, etc. and preplan. What occurred in the past decade or so is many folks got caught up in the credit trap not fully understanding what they were getting into or not being a whiz at handling money. They got the big house, filled it with goodies, took out the second mortgage to pay for those goodies and then maybe the high-end car and then came the job loss, medical issue or divorce. Is that the bank's fault? Is it your fault? Who's fault is it? It is a number of things; poor judgment, bad planning, greed, marketing (i.e., your neighbors will think you are nothing unless you buy this right npw!), etc. Banks and lenders are a business and are out to make money; if one doesn't know that when they sign the paperwork, who's fault is it? Many people are clearly advised to have mortgage and other paperwork viewed by an attorney before they sign. Once you sign, you agree to the terms indicated in the paperwork. If you fail on your end of the bargain, you are in breach of contract. It's basic financial stuff. However, many don't realize what has actually occurred until they face the prospect of having ot file and can't believe they are at that point when it really is so simple to figure out. Took us a while too to face reality when we actually realized iti was all our doing and fault and should have been more prudent and insightful as to planning for the possibility of a future job loss or income loss.

[music12]

i think the only people who should have an ethical issue with filing are those who borrowed money intending to file. only they are "playing the chapter 7 card." the rest, which i bet is 99% or more of filers, never anticipated finding themselves in bk.

[blessed]

Being one of the ones who never anticipated filing, or even knowing it was an option until last month, I do not feel bad.

I learned a ton of lessons, we've changed our ways. For a split second I think I'm getting away with something and then realize that we've been paying minimums for 10 years! The CC companies got all the money back that we borrowed and then some, no guilt here.

[frogger]

Not at all. Everyone has lost something on the deal, including my family.

[Mensa1]

Getting away with anything? Yes, you bet I am. I am getting away with my sanity and my life, and those other things that are truly important to me - my wife and kids. All the rest is just "stuff." And believe me, I feel like I have paid for it twice - once with money, a second time with anguish.

Thank God we don't have debtor's prisons or Shaira Law in the United States.

btbeme: That was touching Brother. I can hear and feel the anguish in what you have written; it is a shame that good people must go through this, but stuff happens. God speed to ya Mate.

My take on it is, if you didn't do something intentionally to rip off a bank or anyone else and things have turned out to be financially unmanagable, then Bk is an entitlement bestowed to each one of us in the US Constitution. It is NO less your right than your right to Vote or live a free life in this country. Hold your head up high and use your rights bestowed by this great country and make the best of your second chance; all smarter and wiser going forward.

[nokia123]

It seems that most of us are here because in the past we enjoyed spending some banks' money, and now we are playing the Chapter 7 card to simply walk away from paying back that money. The cynical side of me says that we and the banks simply entered into a business transaction, and it ended up not being a good investment for the banks. The ethical side of me says that we promised to pay, and unless we truly sell our assets (e.g., the exempt assets, including retirement accounts), we are being unethical - but then again the cynical side of me jumps in again and says that those same banks have been quite unethical (especially lately), so screw 'em.

this is not something i want to do, but with the rent going up and more medical co-pays that i have to dish out for going to the doctors, and that is not counting the pharmacy co-pay. so for me it's a question of do i want a roof over my head? also do i want to stay healthy too so i can work to keep the roof over my head? for me i had no other choice. i had my cards since 1998 and i always paid on time,
only 3 of my cards had a balance the others had 0 balance.

[lulabelle]

I, too take full responsibility for my actions that got me into this mess. The guilt is horrible. It's also horrible to read what other people say about those who file bankruptcy. How it's the "easy" way out (none of this has been easy, and I guarantee it has taken years off of my life), and it's equal to stealing. This was not a choice I wanted to make, and in some ways I am still in denial that it's even happening to me. My husband works three jobs, I had two and we still weren't getting ahead. Could I have made better choices years ago and not been in this mess today? Absolutely. But I've had to come to terms with the fact that looking back will not change today. Now I am being given a chance to change my tomorrow and I'm taking it.

I am Christian, so there has been that internal struggle to deal with as well. However, part of being Christian is asking for forgiveness (which I have pleaded for over and over) and then accepting that I am forgiven and moving on.

The guilt and sadness can either overwhelm you or they can propel you forward. If I won the lottery tomorrow would I make sure that my creditors were paid back every cent? Absolutely. However they aren't total losers in this deal. They have collected enough interest from me over the years to lessen their blow. And they got a bailout, which somehow they felt they were entitled to. Now I have no choice but to feel that I'm entitled to take mine.