silly form definition question

[blncd1]

Sorry, my brain is fried and I am over thinking, but i am filling out chpt 7 paper work and it asks for creditors you payed in the last 90 days. is this only credit cards and secured debt or does this include your basics like gas/electric, phone, and such. sorry, i just want to get this right.

[BKDefender]

blncd1: It means any creditors to which you have paid more than $600 in the past 90 days. I haven't ever put utilities as long as the client is not late on their payments to them - I only list payments to credit cards, car loans, mortgage.


--William

[AngelinaCatHub]

No. Creditors are those who loan you money. Bills such as services are simply services you need and are paid after the fact. In other words; you owe what you spent and wished to have, but did not need. In utilities, you could (in theory) do without, but have incurred an expense. Yes you still owe it, but you did need it. Still a bill but not in the term of a creditor. (Gawd, now I'm confused.) 'Hub

[blncd1]

Thank you! I was thinking that, but am so stressed to make sure everything is correct i am blanking out, ugh! Actually the form is asking for the 90 days/over $600 and the next section is ALL other creditors you have paid in the last 90 days, strange.

[AngelinaCatHub]

blncd1: It means any creditors to which you have paid more than $600 in the past 90 days. I haven't ever put utilities as long as the client is not late on their payments to them - I only list payments to credit cards, car loans, mortgage.


--William

BKDefender: Help. I sure screwed this one up. LoL. 'Hub

[blncd1]

BKDefender: Help. I sure screwed this one up. LoL. 'Hub

Hear scream here.....o.k. does this mean NO basic services????? This is so funny at this point, how can screwball, illiterate people pass this

[BKDefender]

A creditor is defined in section 11 USC 101. A utility company meets the technical requirement of a creditor if you owe them any money at all, even if you are current.

But only if the client has been unable to pay the bill and they're months late would I consider listing the utility company. If you discharge even $1.00 owed to the utility company, it can come back and require a big deposit to continue with their service, but they cannot deny you access to their service.

Cell phone & cable are not utilities though. If the client doesn't have a home phone I always list the cell phone as a utility though. I also list cable & Internet as a utility since chapter 7 trustees don't usually care what their expenses are if they're below median debtors. I don't think cable is a utility but I truly think Internet is a utility, as is cell phone service.

blncd1: If you are a below-median income debtor then it really doesn't matter how much you're paying utilities and expenses. The trustee really wants to know whether you've made any payments to a company that, if you don't pay, can't do anything but sue you. A utility company shuts you off and causes serious problems so payments to them are not generally questioned and the trustee doesn't try to get those back if over $600 in 90 days. If they did, it would kill the ability of the debtor to get a 'fresh-start'. It's hard to be fresh if you can't shower :-)

--William

[blncd1]

Thank you BK Def. We are current on everything and not below the median. we own a house and my husband can use the US Reservist rule to cancel the means calculation, however, we pass the 7 test without it anyway. we are only current because it's pay a pray. we can't go on "winging" it anymore it does not work....it is catching up and we are heading it off before it gets really ugly...i still cannot believe it can get uglier but it can. BK and foreclosure seems so scary. We have a lawyer appt. after i fill out this paper work and she says she has stripped 2/3 that have been refinanced, hard to believe....unfortunately once first is paid we have some left over to cover some of 2 and nothing for the 3rd.....so i can't see how she can strip the 2/3.....more promises only to be dashed i am afraid.
no short sale, bank took all of our reserves promising a modification and gave us nada, 6 months. so this is why we are preparing.