Form 22 or Schedule I/J Determines DMI?

[Walter]

I am still confused on this one.

Given that SS disability benefits of filer and unemployment benefits of non-filing spouse appear on Schedule I, but SS benefits are not included on Form 22, there is a huge swing in the bottom lines: negative DMI on Form 22 and positive DMI when you subtract Schedule J from Schedule I.

Form 22 would suggest the filer is hundreds in the red, while Schedule I would suggest an $800 DMI...because of the SS!

Which is used to determine the 'real' DMI that should be less than like $180/month?

[OhioFiler]

Schedules I and J.

[Walter]

Thanks.

I just got off the phone with the regional Trustee office and the lady I spoke with said they look at the means test and understood how we can have a much higher DMI when looking at the schedules...said not to worry, since it shows the only sources of income as SS disability and non-filing spouse's unemployment.

HOWEVER, I also read some decisions from the local court my dad will have to appear in front of and the lady seemed to view it differently...lots of "so-called means test" language made me think she's not a fan and, like you said, looks at I/J.

"As Trustee has noted, this court has permitted deviation from monthly disposable income on Form 22 when monthly net income on Schedule J is higher"

"As stated above, monthly disposable income calculated on Form 22 is a first look at a debtor’s projected disposable income....While Form 22 is a first look, Schedules I and J can inform that look."


I've been struggling with this one for months now, so just going to submit with a high DMI anyway. The fact of the matter is my father has serious cancer, collecting SS disability, which is exempt, non-filing mother is unemployed for a long time with ~10 weeks of benefits left, zero assets, etc, etc, etc.

While I would like them to do this as a Chapter 7 case, I think they might push for a 13, given the DMI. If this is the case, can you challenge the decision with one appeal, at which point we may either 1.) get a lawyer or 2.) just forget about it and let any credit card company who wants to sue do so...not a dime not exempt and zero assets.

Any thoughts?

[In2deepnow]

the means test is just for verification if you can qualify for chap 7. If the numbers are entered correctly, the meanstest and sched j should be very very close. don't forget the actual expense of the non filing spouse and place them all in the marital adjustment line on form 22 line 17.

[Walter]

I am not sure how they would very close, given Social Security Disability is reported on Schedule I and Form 22, but it is also backed out as exempt on Form 22.

So the difference between the two is precisely equal to the benefit, which is $1,500/month.

Am I missing something?

[Walter]

Can anyone here clear this up for me? One form backs out SS disability (Form 22) and one does not (Schedule I), so we are $1500+ different when it comes to disposable monthly income!

[OhioFiler]

That is correct.

[MSbklawyer]

I am still confused on this one.

You're not the only one. Courts are still debating what to do with the person who passes the means test (and thus technically qualifies for chapter 7) but still has a lot of money left over on I minus J. Some courts are using the "bad faith" test to force them into 13. Others are not. We're all waiting for a consensus to form at the circuit court level.

[OhioFiler]

You're not the only one. Courts are still debating what to do with the person who passes the means test (and thus technically qualifies for chapter 7) but still has a lot of money left over on I minus J. Some courts are using the "bad faith" test to force them into 13. Others are not. We're all waiting for a consensus to form at the circuit court level.

I really don't understand the issue. The Means Test is simply intended to expose the potential for abuse and many people fail the means test yet still end up with Chapter 7 discharges. The real determining issues as to qualification must still be the DMI calculated on schedules I and J.

[Walter]

I think the issue is simply this: If SS disability is backout of the calculation on Form 22, given that it is exempt, it should be backed out on Schedule I, too...otherwise, you arrive at a DMI $1K+ greater on Schedule I vs Form 22.

...at leat that is the issue for our perspective. ;)

[forgotten]

I think it makes sense for it to be on schedule I, even if it is backed on the means test. It do think it should be changed however that if you pass the means test, you qualify. No bad faith argument.

The reason is this... if you want to file a CH13 to save your home or non-exempt property and you are forced to back your social security out of Schedule I you may not be able to propose a confirmable plan as it will seem you do not have enough income to support the required payment.