Replacement Value - What Does it Mean??

[ApresMoi]

Exactly. I have been going over several successfully discharged cases on Pacer and the bottom line is that most of the stuff we own is worthless and needs to be listed as a bunch.
For example "Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500

But you want to itemize the few things that you absolutely don't want to lose (if you can exempt them) in case someone comes over to your home (very unlikely) and decides they have value.

For example
"Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500
Fender Stratocaster - $700

Hope this helps.

Good tip. Do you have a bottom line value for stuff you should list out? A minimum? What if something would sell on eBay for $300 (camera)? Should I separate that out?

[flyinbroke]

I have photography equipment. I bought a nice film setup in 1999. Today I found a lot of the camera body on eBay...for a dollar! Anything over about 5 bucks had no bids on it. Film photography is out and no one is playing or paying anymore. I guess I can separate them, for the sake of the worksheet but they are not worth much.

[GWBcasualty]

Good tip. Do you have a bottom line value for stuff you should list out? A minimum? What if something would sell on eBay for $300 (camera)? Should I separate that out?

If you have room under your exemptions.
If you absolutely want to keep that item.

Than you should list it separately with a "closeout sale" value.

If the camera doesn't matter much to you, it means that you don't place that much value on it... so you list it bunching it up with other stuff.

I downloaded 10 petitions from PACER (successfully discharged in the minimum time) and I did not find a single iPod... a single digital camera... a single cell phone... a single computer... listed separately.
All these were professionally prepared.

I saved them as a pdf and just checked again... nope! Hard to believe that none of the filers owned a PC for example... you just put it in something like "Electronics"

[flyinbroke]

Most of these things lose value quickly. I have an iPod Mini. They don't make them anymore, probably worthless. Film cameras...worthless. Cell phone...old school Sanyo that was free...worthless. Computer bought in '06....worth very little. Hometheater was bought in '03....not worth much.TV bought in '03...worthless.

[ApresMoi]

Well, has anyone ever heard of SoCal Bankruptcy court sending someone out to your home? I find it hard to believe too that people don't have SOMETHING that stands out, even if not very many items. May I ask was it an attorney who suggested the items should be separated out? Thanks.

If you have room under your exemptions.
If you absolutely want to keep that item.

Than you should list it separately with a "closeout sale" value.

If the camera doesn't matter much to you, it means that you don't place that much value on it... so you list it bunching it up with other stuff.

I downloaded 10 petitions from PACER (successfully discharged in the minimum time) and I did not find a single iPod... a single digital camera... a single cell phone... a single computer... listed separately.
All these were professionally prepared.

I saved them as a pdf and just checked again... nope! Hard to believe that none of the filers owned a PC for example... you just put it in something like "Electronics"

[ApresMoi]

My iPod nano sells for about $35 on eBay. Pffftttt!! I paid $200 for it just a few years ago.

[GWBcasualty]

Well, has anyone ever heard of SoCal Bankruptcy court sending someone out to your home? I find it hard to believe too that people don't have SOMETHING that stands out, even if not very many items. May I ask was it an attorney who suggested the items should be separated out? Thanks.

You need to have something of VALUE... meaning something that can be effectively sold for $$$$ in a way that the trustee can get his share.

Most of filers have stuff that costed money... that is valuable to THEM... but that if sold at an auction fetches pennies on the dollar.

OK. Let's say you bought a new Computer eight months ago at $1,500... after eight months how much do you think it can be sold for? $200? $300? It's not worth their time...

[ApresMoi]

Good tip. I will use this. Thanks.

Exactly. I have been going over several successfully discharged cases on Pacer and the bottom line is that most of the stuff we own is worthless and needs to be listed as a bunch.
For example "Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500

But you want to itemize the few things that you absolutely don't want to lose (if you can exempt them) in case someone comes over to your home (very unlikely) and decides they have value.

For example
"Household goods and furniture" - "Usual and customary" $1,500
Fender Stratocaster - $700

Hope this helps.

[mtbc]

To agree with others above, certainly don't use insurance value or whatever, nor the value of new versions of your battered old stuff, it's more appopriate to imagine what the trustee would probably get at a regular auction for the actual items, or what you'd have to pay to buy clones of them at some bargain retail outlet for used goods (Goodwill or whatever). For tricky items one idea can be to take it to a local pawnbroker to see what they'd give you for it. It's a difficult question because the law is a bit vague and districts vary in interpretation, what they really want to know is just how much the trustee can probably easily sell it for. Obviously, that isn't legal advice, just my own take on things.

You might find that you're lucky: things are so much cheaper as used, battered goods, that even being generous (e.g., our minivan I valued at $1,500 and just sold at arm's length for $100!) we still came way under the limits, so you may be pleasantly surprised after a good-faith valuation of your used goods.

[mtbc]

I should add, I only needed the one page for Schedule C. I crammed things in a bit by grouping multiple property descriptions into one box, e.g.,

violin ($250), guitars ($180, $100, $25), cameras ($150, $120), home gym ($1,200)

and more, and just put the subtotals in the other columns, but I still didn't use a continuation sheet, and many people don't even break things out to that amount of detail and still nobody blinks. I just listed,

desks, beds, chairs, lamps

etc. without even giving individual values, just one total for that row. The Nolo book has a reassuring example which, if I recall correctly, is even less detailed than that.

So, personally, I wouldn't sweat it too much. (-: I only bothered as much as I did because we'd recently moved apartment so it was easy for me to just note bigger items as they went in the moving truck.

[BKInLA]

My attorney stated to me to also use "garage sale" value. I'm using eBay as my online garage sale to determine value.

[ApresMoi]

Thank you. I will take a look at Schedule C and see how that works.

I should add, I only needed the one page for Schedule C. I crammed things in a bit by grouping multiple property descriptions into one box, e.g.,

and more, and just put the subtotals in the other columns, but I still didn't use a continuation sheet, and many people don't even break things out to that amount of detail and still nobody blinks. I just listed,

etc. without even giving individual values, just one total for that row. The Nolo book has a reassuring example which, if I recall correctly, is even less detailed than that.

So, personally, I wouldn't sweat it too much. (-: I only bothered as much as I did because we'd recently moved apartment so it was easy for me to just note bigger items as they went in the moving truck.

[Walter]

Good thread with good information; thanks.

I just wish there were a site, even on the U.S. Trustee site, that gave some values...much like the tables used for federa taxes and the stuff you donate to charity...can look up lamps and clothes and tvs, etc.

I broke out WAY more items than needed and actually used 4 continuation sheets, to just to show we went the distance on listing everything and helping to keep any flags lowered.

But after I reviewed it, it seems I was placed $75 values for more than half the items, when then raised a flag with ME. ;) I am going back through it now...no way to value 10 year riding lawn mowers and 15 year olf dinning room table set w/ matching china cabinet, etc, etc...

No sites out there that give you some arbitrary numbers to plug in?

[ApresMoi]

This was one of the more difficult aspects of getting my BK paperwork together. I started out by having someone WHO DID NOT KNOW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT give me a quote on an antique, but when I got a second opinion that was WAY LOWER than the first valuation, I realized that I really needed to do more research. I finally found a reliable appraisal (for free) through emailing photos to someone, followed up by a telephone consultation. Like medical diagnoses, it pays to get second opinions. That's for items of 'unusual value' (in this case an antique).

All the footwork I did will be worth it. Because if a trustee asks me how I arrived at the valuations for certain items, I will be ready (and confident that I did the right thing and am on solid ground with the valuations).

For all the other stuff, I took an actual inventory. I created 'categories' (furniture, accessories, electronics, clothing, entertainment, etc.) on a spreadsheet, then grouped items below each category (90 books, 35 cds, 15 blouses, etc.).

After I had the inventory sheet together, I went on eBay or google and saw what others were asking for similar items, or what the items sold for, then assigned values based on that. Quite a few items had no value whatsoever (10 year old VCR, for example). I still listed it, but put 'no value'.

I'll leave it up to the attorney's legal staff to figure out how to bunch things up even more than what I did.

I still think I overvalued a lot of stuff, but when the final numbers come back from the attorney, I can always adjust. For example, I counted how many pairs of shoes I had and multiplied by $7, which I now think is at least double what anyone would pay for them at a garage sale. On clothing, my attorney said to imagine everything I owned in large plastic bags, then multiply the number of bags by $50. They are not interested in detail.

In the end, I gave them lots of detail, but made it easy for them as my info was very organized. If they want to take all the electronics and lump them into a single line item, so be it. The detail that I gave them will still come in handy in case there are any questions as to how we arrived at the line item numbers.

This exercise was actually quite helpful. I learned a LOT about what my stuff is worth, and will likely use that for insurance coverage. The stuff isn't worth nearly what I thought, btw. Good to know!

***************

Good thread with good information; thanks.

I just wish there were a site, even on the U.S. Trustee site, that gave some values...much like the tables used for federa taxes and the stuff you donate to charity...can look up lamps and clothes and tvs, etc.

I broke out WAY more items than needed and actually used 4 continuation sheets, to just to show we went the distance on listing everything and helping to keep any flags lowered.

But after I reviewed it, it seems I was placed $75 values for more than half the items, when then raised a flag with ME. ;) I am going back through it now...no way to value 10 year riding lawn mowers and 15 year olf dinning room table set w/ matching china cabinet, etc, etc...

No sites out there that give you some arbitrary numbers to plug in?

[Heli]

Between this site Salvation Army Valuation Guide and ebay / craigs list. I was suprised on how little value things were actually worth. Anyway link supplied for those who wish to use it since it's a known source my lawyer seemed to think the trustee would not bat an eye if I was asked how I valued my things , which he doesn't think will happen anyway.