Means Test and Income Taxes

[Falcon]

On line 25 of the online Means Test calculator, where it asks about taxes, the wording of the question confuses me. Which taxes exactly are allowed to be entered in this line? It says Income taxes, which I only listed as federal, but can you include both federal and state, as well as Social Security taxes and Medicare taxes?

Thanks in advance

[LimpDisc]

You would include all of the taxes you listed. This line really confused me too. I added up all my paystubs and listed the average. My attorney actually came up with a higher amount. I asked how they came up with the higher number, but the paralegal only said they can play with that number a little. Maybe someone else can explain it better.

[Llelxon]

On schedule J line 12, I listed vehicle tax and wheel tax. If you pay a personal property tax on vehicles, boats, animals, etc in your state I would think you could list that there as well. It is hard to remember or find every little thing you pay over a year to include in your expenses, but if your close to failing the means test it would be well worth it to "find" them.

[OhioFiler]

You would include all of the taxes you listed. This line really confused me too. I added up all my paystubs and listed the average. My attorney actually came up with a higher amount. I asked how they came up with the higher number, but the paralegal only said they can play with that number a little. Maybe someone else can explain it better.

I would be demanding to know what the paralegal means by that statement. Is he indicating a fudge is okay when the actual amount would not work to your advantage? In some places this is known as fraud.

[newbie2]

That was one of the line items that my trustee looked at carefully. In fact, there was one objection to confirmation because our "taxes paid" didn't match up to the withholding on the paycheck. We had to give our trustee copies of the checks we sent to the IRS quarterly that weren't included in the withholding out of the paychecks. Only then could they see that the "taxes paid" added up to what was on our schedule.

I would be careful with not putting accurate numbers on the forms.

[LimpDisc]

I would be demanding to know what the paralegal means by that statement. Is he indicating a fudge is okay when the actual amount would not work to your advantage? In some places this is known as fraud.

No need to demand anything from my attorney! He's been doing BK's for 25+ years and I am quite sure he knows what he's doing. I am already done with the 341 meeting and report of no distribution filed.

Ohio, maybe things are done different all over the country. That's why everything on this forum should be taken as advice, not fact.


So I asked (not demanded) my attorney about the difference. We pay in each year we file taxes so he adjusted line 25 accordingly.

"For bankruptcy purposes, an apparent majority of post-BAPCPA cases hold that the allowable amount of a debtor’s tax liability to be deducted on line 25 of Form B22A is the debtor’s actual tax liability, and not the amount withheld from the debtor’s paycheck"

[edwinhil]

How about social security income? It's clearly stated on the form not to include social security payments, but my attorney did. When I inquired why that was included I too was told that he needed that number in there. This is on a chap 13.

[LimpDisc]

That was one of the line items that my trustee looked at carefully. In fact, there was one objection to confirmation because our "taxes paid" didn't match up to the withholding on the paycheck. We had to give our trustee copies of the checks we sent to the IRS quarterly that weren't included in the withholding out of the paychecks. Only then could they see that the "taxes paid" added up to what was on our schedule.

I would be careful with not putting accurate numbers on the forms.

[OhioFiler]

No need to demand anything from my attorney! He's been doing BK's for 25+ years and I am quite sure he knows what he's doing. I am already done with the 341 meeting and report of no distribution filed.

Ohio, maybe things are done different all over the country. That's why everything on this forum should be taken as advice, not fact.


So I asked (not demanded) my attorney about the difference. We pay in each year we file taxes so he adjusted line 25 accordingly.

Adjusting line 25 to reflect ACTUAL tax liability is not the same as "playing with it a little bit". I would demand an explanation regardless of where I live if some paralegal made such a laughable and clearly false claim.