Successful Lien Avoidance - Now What

[JimBK2009]

So, I was able to get the court to grant my motion to avoid a lien on my house...

But does anyone know how I take this order and actually remove the lien? I called the recorders office and all they said was that if I gave them the court order they would file it,

Should I wait for the discharge and try to force the creditor to go into the recorders office himself and remove the lien and then sue him for violating the discharge order if he does not?

[justbroke]

What lien was this? Was this some sort of consensual lien (mortgage) or something else like a judgment lien? You could record it. The creditor could also file a satisfaction of lien. I don't know who this creditor is, or if they even know what to do.

[frogger]

Your post is not making a lot of sense. You avoided a lien, yet they have a lien?

Do they or don't they and what kind of lien is it?

[OhioFiler]

I don't think trying to set up a lawsuit post-discharge is the way to go. If they don't record the motion you certainly are capable.

[JimBK2009]

What lien was this? Was this some sort of consensual lien (mortgage) or something else like a judgment lien? You could record it. The creditor could also file a satisfaction of lien. I don't know who this creditor is, or if they even know what to do.

The only type of lien you can avoid in a Chapter 7 is a judicial lien (you can not avoid a mortgage lien in a chapter 7 or a statutory lien)

[JimBK2009]

Your post is not making a lot of sense. You avoided a lien, yet they have a lien?

Do they or don't they and what kind of lien is it?

Well the way it works is that a creditor gets a judgment, they go down to the county recorders office and record a lien against your property.

After you get a court order which grants the avoidance of the lien the creditor's lien doesn't just magically get erased from the books at the recorders office. You have to get it removed and the court order is what gives you permission to do so. However, the recorders office only records liens, if you take them the court order they will only offer to file it and they will not remove the filed judgment liens.

So Im guessing the only way to get rid of the lien is to ask the creditor to remove it and sue him for violating the discharge order since secured liens that are avoided are put in the same category as Schedule F unsecured debts.

[justbroke]

The only type of lien you can avoid in a Chapter 7 is a judicial lien (you can not avoid a mortgage lien in a chapter 7 or a statutory lien)

This is not true. While the majority opinion is that you can not avoid a consensual lien in a Chapter 7, there are judges who will avoid consensual liens in a Chapter 7.

We well understand how judgment liens work. We were asking what type of lien it is, and now we know it's a non-consensual "judgment" lien.

So Im guessing the only way to get rid of the lien is to ask the creditor to remove it and sue him for violating the discharge order since secured liens that are avoided are put in the same category as Schedule F unsecured debts.

So, I'm assuming that you had this lien avoided under 11 USC 522(f). Now that you've done that, you need to have the lien satisfaction recorded. I don't know what you're saying about "suing" for violating the discharge... when you just received this Order granting the avoidance of the judgment lien?

The first step you do is write a very professional letter and attach the Order. You give the creditor 10 or so days to record a Satisfaction of Lien. You will tell them that you'll ask the Court to enter an Order to show cause if they don't comply. Then, it's not so much as suing, but it's a Show Cause hearing and then your request for Sanctions in the Bankruptcy Court.

We inform people on this forum time and time and time again that a judgment lien doesn't just magically disappear. That the debtor needs to take steps to get the Avoidance Order recorded and taking the additional steps to have the Satisfaction of Lien recorded by the (former) lienholder.

I'm assuming your Bankruptcy case is still open since you haven't received a discharge yet. I would sent the correspondence to the Creditor (lienholder) certified mail, return receipt requested, with confirmation.

[PoorGrammyinBK7]

Justbroke, what if the judgement happened in another state? I have no property there. Can't find that anything (no judgement, no lien) was ever recorded here. Not sure how to find out if it was recorded in the other state. Does NOT show on my credit report. Yet I still worry - don't want it to come back and haunt me years from now as some kind of zombie debt or something.
Any advice?

[justbroke]

Yeah, they haven't "domesticated" the foreign (other State's) judgment lien. Maybe they don't know where you are, or are just lazy? If the foreign judgment doesn't attach to any property, you could probably have it removed.

Alas, nothing I say, and nothing you do, will ever prevent it from potentially coming zombie debt. I mean, it resurrects from the dead, by definition!

[PoorGrammyinBK7]

Thanks justbroke - now to try and figure out how to get it removed. Where to start? Should I call the court where it was rendered? The creditor does know where I am, but I filed pretty soon after the judgement. Haven't heard from them since. If the judgement was included in BK can they still attach a lien to property attained after the BK? My lawyer said the judgement "goes away" in BK. But I am confused about the judgement lien. I know it survives the BK - if there is a lien. But, if it wasn't domesticated, can it be revived and put on property later?

[justbroke]

A judgment lien is only against property that existed at the time it was field. If you filed quickly after the lien was granted, they haven't domesticated it, because that would be a violation of the automatic stay... but alas, your case is now closed so the stay is actually lifted.

Yep, best bet is to call the Clerk of that Court and ask a "procedural" question regarding filing a Suggestion of Bankruptcy. I don't think they'll ever be able to domesticate that lien to the State in which you live now due to the permanent discharge injunction. However, that's just my opinion.

[PoorGrammyinBK7]

Thanks!!! Can't believe someone else is up this late! I will do that next week and see waht they say is the right procedure.

[lrprn]

Can't believe someone else is up this late!

There are a few night owls on the forum - you two are not alone