Exemptions question

[NSH]

Some of you may remember me from a few months back with the whole NYC Marshal threatening in a letter r execution to break into my house snafoo!

Anyway, I am in NY City (obviously) and I have personal possessions and I am wondering how much I can keep exempt. I do not own a car right now, so that isn't an issue. I have read $5,000.00 in personal property is excempt, but I am pretty sure I have more money worth of possessions than that. Are there any other exemptions?

For instance, a musician having musical equipment he doesn't want to part with, etc?

Also in the sticky above, there was brought up the point that you can buy back your stuff from the U.S. Trustee. How does this work? Do you have to pay fair market value?

How much cash are you allowed to possess at the start of a BK after you have paid your lawyer?

Actually I have more questions than this and I will use this thread for them when I am ready to ask them.

[JoeBankrupt33]

In New York, you have a $5000 exemption for personal items. You really need to double think the value of the items that you have, and the value should be in line with garage sale prices. Basically, ask yourself "How much will the trustee be able to get for this item if he needs to sell it quickly?" You just may soon realize that you don't have $5000 in personal items.

It looks like the musical equipment would most likely need to be covered as personal property. But, it looks like there is some sort of additional exemption for cash/personal property if you don't use the homestead, but it's not clear to me how it works.

Just type "New York Bankruptcy Exemptions" into Google. Watch out, though, a lot of sites post outdated info. In my state, I ended up looking at the actual laws.

If you buy something back from the trustee, ask the trustee and make an offer. They don't have to accept it, but you should consider the value of the item and the expense the trustee will incur by having to sell it elsewhere.

[backtoschool]

In nyc you get $5,000 personal property exemption (value your stuff at ebay-garage sale prices) and if you have performed professionally as a musician, you can claim a $600 tools of the trade exemption for the instruments.

[OhioFiler]

What leads you to believe you have more than $5,000 in personal property? What items are you valuing the highest?

[NSH]

A whole lot of DVD's, several televisions (two of them LCD's) a couple of PS3's and 360's, a large library of games to go with them, furniture, a lot of cooking stuff in my kitchen, musical equipment, and on and on. I am just not sure how to "value" everything. I am a ways off of filing, though, because it is a NIGHTMARE trying to do my taxes for the last three years, so I have time to think about all this. I am just not sure how the hell I am going to inentory every single item I own in a bankruptcy case once I file.

Or am I going to be asked to like take pictures and give a general assessment or perhaps permit the US Trustee's reps come into my apartment and make the assessment themselves?

[OhioFiler]

You're under $5,000 based on that list.

[simplicityof]

The NY no homestead exemption allows you to use the unclaimed portion of your $5000 exemption as cash toward your already claimed exemptions e.g. $600 tools and/or $2400 car, or cash... It's your unclaimed portion of your personal exemption, or $2500, whichever is less.
There is a NY bill in the works to raise the personal total to $10,000, with $3000 tools, and $4000 car. I think the no homestead is doubled. You will also have a choice of using either the federal or state exemptions.

[ToughTimes]

Also in the sticky above, there was brought up the point that you can buy back your stuff from the U.S. Trustee. How does this work? Do you have to pay fair market value?

NSH,

I bought back my sewing machines from the trustee. At the 341 he knew from my attorney that I wanted to buy them back. He looked at my attorney and said to submit an offer. My attorney instructed me to call him (attorney) with the amount I'd like to offer. I asked him if the offer was a one-shot deal and he told me that it's not; if the trustee doesn't like what one offers, another offer can be made. I offered half the amount of their declared value and that offer was accepted. I provided a cashier's check for that amount to the trustee.

The amount you offer is a best guess of what the trustee might actually be able to "get" for the asset(s) in question, less the amount it's going to cost the trustee to store the stuff and any fees s/he'll have to pay to sell it. When determining this amount, keep in mind that the trustee is not even likely to be selling in specialty markets for the item, markets with which you may be intimately familiar. In my case, the trustee's secretary cheerfully informed me that he uses a particular auction house. I personally could get quite a bit more in various specialty markets. I could get quite a bit more on eBay, for that matter. The trustee doesn't have time to be an expert in every suitable specialty market, and it appears mine isn't eBaying.

But you are getting wayyyyyy ahead of yourself. You are really stressing over things that are not likely to be issues. (Most of us have, of course.) File your taxes. Consult with attorneys. Hire an attorney. Follow your attorney's advice. Truly, I will be very surprised if you cannot exempt all of your stuff, based on the list you've given.

[catleg]

Nobody comes to your house to look over your stuff, that I've ever heard, except for one notorious case where they searched a "wealthy" lady's house looking for jewelry.

Look, you're not somebody like an NFL athlete or somebody else prominent in the community like a doctor right? Then they might have reason to suspect that you have some items of value worth liquidating. Art, jewelry, coins, guns, any other kind of collectibles, etc.

Normal run of the mill bankruptcy cases just normally don't have assets like that and they really don't want your used coffee mugs, towels, dvd's. Most people in trouble have already liquidated anything worth easy cash in the process leading up to bankruptcy.

If somebody examines your bank and credit card statements and sees purchases from Sotheby's they might be interested. Dollar store? Not so much.

[NSH]

Thank, guys! I have a lot more questions along these lines, but I am a little concerned about asking them in a public form as paranoid as that will sound. Here is an innocous one, though: How am I expected to tabulate my belongings? I mean, while I am not rich and don't own like yachts and cars, I have a ton of little possessions in my home. Will I be expected to list every single thing somehow, go through my apartment with a fine tooth comb? Or will I just say, "Er...um...OKay I have about 5K worth of stuff" and leave it at that?

[backtoschool]

Thank, guys! I have a lot more questions along these lines, but I am a little concerned about asking them in a public form as paranoid as that will sound. Here is an innocous one, though: How am I expected to tabulate my belongings? I mean, while I am not rich and don't own like yachts and cars, I have a ton of little possessions in my home. Will I be expected to list every single thing somehow, go through my apartment with a fine tooth comb? Or will I just say, "Er...um...OKay I have about 5K worth of stuff" and leave it at that?

Lump them into general categories such as "household goods", "furniture", "clothing", etc.

[ApresMoi]

"Will I be expected to list every single thing somehow, go through my apartment with a fine tooth comb? Or will I just say, "Er...um...OKay I have about 5K worth of stuff" and leave it at that?"

Here's what I did:

Created a spreadsheet with column titles, such as "date appraised", "item", "estimated value", "appraisal source", "amount exempt", "civil code", and "notes". I also included a column for how much of California's wildcard I used if the estimated/appraised value was greater than the exemption allowed in California.

Then all the goods were divided into categories: "furniture", "accessories" (such as lamps, mirrors), "electronics", "kitchen implements/appliances", "personal effects", "clothing", "books, CDs/DVDs", "rugs & art", etc.

Each entry can be as detailed as you like. If you are going to also use the list for renter's insurance or possible future sales of items, get specific in your description, and maybe add a column for ticking off when it sold and for how much.

After creating a detailed list, you can do a 'save as' and create another document to inventory for the bankruptcy. Change your descriptions to eliminate detail, e.g., list out goods in groups...not the title of each DVD, just the number of DVDs that you own (e.g., "100 DVDs"), or "10 Boxes of Books" with estimated 'group' values.

I completed most of this project in one day, and fine-tuned valuations on a second day. The coordination/consultations with appraisers (auction houses, etc.) took couple of days.

I found things I had forgotten I had, and was surprised by the resale value of others.

Sources I used for valuations: Free online appraisal from an auction house for an antique (takes 4 to 6 weeks to get the answer), used a free 30 day trial at artfact.com, went to a free appraisal day at local auction house (took in photos), got free verbal appraisals from local jewelers, and, of course, also eBay, google, amazon, and craigslist.

It's pretty easy to find out what something will sell for in similar condition online.

For me, this effort was worth it. Good luck!

[NSH]

Lump them into general categories such as "household goods", "furniture", "clothing", etc.

I think I would prefer to go this route than the highly detailed one. I mean, if the Trustee wants, he or she could always come into my house and make a more detailed inventory, but I would really prefer to be as general as possible with this if it won't hurt my case, of course.

[backtoschool]

I think I would prefer to go this route than the highly detailed one. I mean, if the Trustee wants, he or she could always come into my house and make a more detailed inventory, but I would really prefer to be as general as possible with this if it won't hurt my case, of course.

Just break your household items into categories such as "furniture", "clothing", "jewelry", "household goods", "appliances", etc and you should be fine. I would put very large ticket items such as appliances separate from other household goods as a category.