341 today with US TRUSTEE

[mautang21]

I have filed for chapter 7. I am above the median. The US trustee was all over me. My lawyer added my 401K as expense, I expected that. I would still be at negative. Here is the deciding factor to my case. My non filing spouse pays 700 on her credit cards. The trustee asked why is she not filing and paying that much since we are at a negative DMI. I said she protects her credit and we split the household expense. Then i said she pays 3 1/2% of her unsecured debt. Then i said BAPCPA, the constituion of the bankruptcy court, has been pushing for CC company to increase the minimum to 4%. I said if that takes effect, she will end up in bankruptcy court too. And the rest will be told in 10 days. I expect them to file a motion but I think it's worth fighting. Any thoughts or experience?

[justbroke]

I don't see anything that the UST can complain about. You'll just have to see.

[creditguy]

Justbroke said
"I don't see anything that the UST can complain about. You'll just have to see."

The UST will most likely complain about the 401k loan payment as an expense. I am surprised Maustang21's lawyer included it since he would have qualified without it anyway. Since that error was made the UST may wonder what other errors there are.

[mautang21]

I was telling my lawyer about it that they are not included but he keeps on insisting they might overlook. I just said fine. Here is the thing that will really really decide me between 7 and 13. My wife's FICO credit score is around 710-720, we were never have anything joint except the house, she pays 700 a month on her credit card which she owe's 21,000. I said is is protecting her credit, she's an auditor for the State, And I said isn't it they credit management class and bapcpa says never pay the minimum. with her good credit her minimum payment is low. I am just afraid the the trustee will motion that if she only pays the minimum I can fund a 13. JB helped me more than my lawyer. Believe he, he sat there staring at a painting while I go at it with the trustee. Justbroke, do you think if i get a new lawyer he can argue that the 3 1/2% payment is justifiable? I already sent a fax to the US TRUSTEE from my spouse to explain why is she not filing.

[momisery]

This could be an excellent topic ... if your married do not own anything joint. That way if one of you goes down, you still have the other ones credit to rely on so someone can get a job. Most of us have to rely on both to make house payments, but if there is a way you can afford it I think the best thing to do is not own things together. Geesh, what a nation we have become.

[creditguy]

I know you were asking Justboke a question and not me but I thought I would share my experience.

I filed without my wife and did include her credit card payments as an expense. Neither the UST or Trustee had anything to say about...lucky I guess.
It seems to me that if you were to provide the UST with your wifes credit card statements(if he objects) that would give proof to your valid expense. I don't think her credit score or job has anything to do with it. The real question is can you find any extra expenses to include if you think you will not qualify because the UST says you can fund a 13 based on your wifes minimum payment to the credit card companies? I mean we can only be talking about a hundred or two, right?

"I already sent a fax to the US TRUSTEE from my spouse to explain why is she not filing. "
Did you consult your attorney before doing this? If not, that probably was not a good idea. I would not suggest contacting the Trustee or UST if you have a lawyer involved. Let him do what he gets paid for.

[mautang21]

if you met my atty, you will understand why I am doing everything. at my 341 the trustee only asked for my name, then the US TRUSTEE took over. My atty was like a flower vase there. I defended myself. I am above median so I expected that. My wife style of payment is not the dollar amount. It's payment/debt ratio. were are talking a difference of 245 dollars from her minimum and what she pays. That's the only thing that we spent so much topic on. This is what I said, the credit management class and BAPCPA is advocating to consumers NEVER TO PAY minimum payments. And BAPCPA itself is pushing credit card company to put a higher minimum payment to 4%. my spouse pays 3 1/2 percent of 20000 she owes, that's 700. This is what will my arguement be, if she will pay just the minimum then I wll have funds for a 13, but what happens to her? by doing minimum payment her credit score that does not matter maybe will be lower then higher interest bigger minimum, she's did not file it will have an effect in the long run. i said they are appling the BAP to ensure you are using the whole means, what about the CPA? with what they are suggesting they are driving my non filing spouse towards bankrupcty. And does BAPCPA only say never pay minimum but if we can use your money then it's ok to pay the minimum???? it will be my planned argument, will it fly in front of the judge. Screw my lawyer trust me, my 1,600 fee went down the drain with no service. Can I fire him?

[liboton21]

What district are you?

[mautang21]

Illinois Northern District....

[justbroke]

Justbroke, do you think if i get a new lawyer he can argue that the 3 1/2% payment is justifiable? I already sent a fax to the US TRUSTEE from my spouse to explain why is she not filing.

I really don't see any argument from the UST's standpoint. What basis would the UST have to changing the marital adjustment. Your wife's debts are her debts and she can pay them as she chooses. I don't think you need to explain "too much". A mere, it's her individual debt and she pays for them. That amount is not contributed to the household (period).

[mautang21]

Thanks JB. the initial question of the US TRUSTEE was, if she's paying 700 a month and we have a negative DMI why is she not filing? then I answered why, I was offering her credit report and payment history for the last 3 years she said she will request it when she needs it. Also she hit me with the cars. I said I needed a car last year, with my credit they won't even let me finance a bicycle. Her credit is good, we bought a 2006 Rav 4 sport for 14,5000 with an apr of 3.9% what's wrong with taking advantage of the one having good credit. I'd be lucky if a finance shark will loan me with 18.99$ if they take her income, asset, debt. To be honest without her info. And split the basic necessities. I'm a slamdunk 7. and I said, we never had a joint acct except for the mortgage, ever... no checking, credit card, savings...

[justbroke]

Of course the UST will try to find an angle to mess with you, but I still see no valid reason for the UST to object. It's your debt that's pulling you two down... not hers. I can see the argument if you were paying on her antecedent debt and only you were filing, but that's not the case.

So, the reason I keep saying... don't worry about it... because it is what it is at this point. If the UST finds some angle to challenge you on a Totality of Circumstances or something... so be it. You'll then get to know what they are attacking, and then you can rebut anything they say. At this point, it is no point trying to divine what's in the mind of the UST.

I wish you the best of luck. Let us know if the UST files a presumption of abuse in the next 10 days. Then, we'll wait for any other moves by the UST up to the discharge bar date.

[music12]

and until then, don't send the trustee any information or letters that's not being requested...

[mautang21]

Thanks JustBroke. I will hire you everyday and twice on sundays to represent me. I only sent that since there were no questions directed to me. Everything is about my wife's payment and two cars that she has. And besides my wife would have sent it. And there's nothing wrong with it. I am clean and ready for backing on every expense. Life jb just said, they are maybe looking at the angle of totality of circumstances. If I survive this, after march 8, my last day if I get there... Someone sent me a johnny walker blue last chiristmas and I don't drink. I am more than willing to donate to you JB.

[justbroke]

I don't drink either, but thanks for the gesture of good will.