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Petitiion Received - questions - help!!

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    #16
    We moved to the UK for a while away from our US debts and, from the US point of view, we pretty much dropped off the map; we were very careful with paper trails that a skip tracer might follow. I doubt the US creditors would ever have gone to the lengths they would have had to to be able to find us, as we sure didn't make it easy. I probably wouldn't have even bothered filing bankruptcy in the US if my wife hadn't been wanting us to be here at the moment. (If our present bankruptcy case goes horribly awry, we might drop off the map again, with moving to the European Union again, via a name change in a third country, as part of the plan as to how.) So, perhaps you also have the option of simply making yourself hard to find, if your creditors are all very US-based and the debt isn't so enormous as to be worth international detective work.

    (Similarly, until I filed in MA, there was no way a skip tracer could have found that I was even in MA -- through driver license records, voting records, bank account or credit card account addresses, rental agencies, anything. The closest I had was a Mail Boxes Etc. mailbox in a different state. A nice thing about filing is I could finally get a valid driver license, register to vote, etc.)

    Note that filing bankruptcy in the UK probably wouldn't protect you from your creditors in the US going after US assets unless you did use chapter 15. Otherwise, for the most part, you'd only be protected from collection in other EU countries. (There's some kind of EU-wide reciprocity deal whose name I forget.) And, bankruptcy in the UK is a bigger deal than it is here.

    However, also note that, at least if I recall correctly, it is possible for people living overseas to file chapters other than 15 in the US. I don't know if 7 or 13 are an option, or if it'd have to be 11, but I do recall reading that there was a case (forget which district) where the court ruled that actual residence here was not a requirement and that the venue would be where the debtor had most of their US assets. (I'd guess they used Federal exemptions.) In that case, my understanding is that the US-side trustee could use the UK's chapter-15-equivalent (it does have one) to investigate your overseas assets, etc.) So, you may want to consider looking into this, then moving to the UK before filing bankruptcy in the US, leaving some assets in the US (bank account, whatever) that can be used to determine the venue, then doing a regular US filing from the UK. However, the regular Nolo book and a regular bankruptcy mill attorney won't know how to handle or argue this, you'll have to do your own research or retain a more capable attorney. If you really want I could try to dig up that case again.

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      #17
      I should add, if you filed in the US from the UK, not only do you still need US-based assets to determine venue, but I believe you also still have to come to the 341 of course.

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        #18
        Originally posted by MSbklawyer View Post
        Is that for ANY country or just the one you are going to? Your saying that if you're in chapter 13, you're stuck here and can't leave the country? Wow. You learn something every day.
        I called an immigration lawyer in the UK to confirm. Apparently if the visa is a spouse visa - and as long as we can show that we won't resort to using "public funds" then we're OK. On that basis can anyone tell me the following:

        1. Husband hasnt actually filed yet, he's done the online credit credit counselling course. If I joined him in the bankruptcy, how would it work if we put the house into the bankruptcy? i.e how long, roughly, would the process take. We can't afford to be "out on the street" as we have a 13 year old. We need to be able to stay in the house until the day we leave the country.

        Also, if the house were thrown into the bankruptcy, that would basically be saving us 1,160 per month. Surely they'd take that into account? i.e perhaps force us into a chapter 13 instead of a chapter 7?

        The house is on joint names.

        I last used my credit cards, two of them, just prior to Christmas.

        This message is a bit rushed - Im in work ..

        Can anyone advise??

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          #19
          What the lawyer said sounds about right, for what it's worth. (I did spouse visa immigration to the UK and the US pro se as well!) You just need to be able to show that you'll have the means to be able to afford to live there, and they're flexible about how you achieve that. (And do check if you might be able to move there, then file chapter 7 in US courts from there -- I am not aware of any law that prevents that, and it might make the visa issues easier.)
          Last edited by mtbc; 01-08-2010, 01:53 PM. Reason: fix weird automatic wiki markup

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            #20
            Originally posted by mtbc View Post
            What the lawyer said sounds about right, for what it's worth. (I did spouse visa immigration to the UK and the US pro se as well!) You just need to be able to show that you'll have the means to be able to afford to live there, and they're flexible about how you achieve that. (And do check if you might be able to move there, then file chapter 7 in US courts from there -- I am not aware of any law that prevents that, and it might make the visa issues easier.)
            I'm trying to work out in my mind how we could file from the UK because the consulate is going to need a "budget" i.e how we'd live in the UK/etc. Now that's not a problem except for the fact that no one really knows if it will be a complete wipeout i.e chapter 7, or whether it would end up being a chapter 13. If its a chapter 13 then obviously we're going to be stuck in a repayment .. which will effect the "financial" aspect of the visa. Without any repayment/chaper 13, then yes, we'll be able to comply with the visa requirements but it not, then we're stuck.

            ohhhhh I don't know ... each time I come up with one positive .. I come up with a negative. But thank you anyway for your reply.

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