Line 17 of Schedule J

[mysticspirit25]

What are allowable expenses categorized as "other" on line 17 of B6J, aka Schedule J - Current expenditures of individual debtors?

[LimpDisc]

Our attorney put HOA, pet expenses, personal care products and misc monthly expenses on that line.

[justbroke]

That's too hard to quantify. It truly is other expenses that you have. Whether they are allowed or not in your District is even more difficult to quantify. Generally, you put anything here that is not categorized on another line of Schedule J.

For example, personal care (haircuts, etc) are not categorized anywhere else. You could put it here. Whether the Trustee in your District will accept that and the amount you spend, is an exercise for your specific Trustee and District.

This could be anything like support provided by elderly/aging parents, support to a child in college (that you didn't count in your household size), personal care, periodical subscriptions, professional certifications/memberships, etc. Whether they are allowed, is another story.

If you're trying to use this category just to "pad" your expenses so that you fit into a Chapter 7... beware. If you're over the median income, the UST almost certainly will attack things in that "Other" category.

[mtbc]

I ended up with I think $280 in "other", which, while I was surprised at how high it was, it was everything I couldn't see easily fit onto the other lines from the household budget we already live to. I have annual subscriptions for professional memberships (just paid over $200 for one a few weeks ago), online access to journal papers, etc., I need to buy professional textbooks (about $60 each, why 'books' is a large line item in our assets), there's personal care, we go through a good amount of stationery, stamps (just sent my timesheets out today to our office for billing), etc., there's the babysitter to pay, etc. For instance, since we moved house I need to order new checks with our new address, telephone number on them, which I guess only comes out of `Other'. At least, unless the other categories are broader than I'd thought.

[mysticspirit25]

That's too hard to quantify. It truly is other expenses that you have. Whether they are allowed or not in your District is even more difficult to quantify. Generally, you put anything here that is not categorized on another line of Schedule J.

For example, personal care (haircuts, etc) are not categorized anywhere else. You could put it here. Whether the Trustee in your District will accept that and the amount you spend, is an exercise for your specific Trustee and District.

This could be anything like support provided by elderly/aging parents, support to a child in college (that you didn't count in your household size), personal care, periodical subscriptions, professional certifications/memberships, etc. Whether they are allowed, is another story.

If you're trying to use this category just to "pad" your expenses so that you fit into a Chapter 7... beware. If you're over the median income, the UST almost certainly will attack things in that "Other" category.

Well, I have a family friend filing CH7, she makes 76k/yr and median is 84k, so she is under, problem is, she is in the positive by $175 on Sch J. (not including her credit card payments, which I know are not allowed, but they are 1700/mo min pmts alone) Need to make that negative, no need for a 13. She supports 2 kids and is single mother, works 3 jobs just to make ends meet, and with the cc companies ratejacking her lately for no reason, she just gave up.

[LimpDisc]

Well, I have a family friend filing CH7, she makes 76k/yr and median is 84k, so she is under, problem is, she is in the positive by $175 on Sch J. (not including her credit card payments, which I know are not allowed, but they are 1700/mo min pmts alone) Need to make that negative, no need for a 13. She supports 2 kids and is single mother, works 3 jobs just to make ends meet, and with the cc companies ratejacking her lately for no reason, she just gave up.

What about quiting one of the jobs?

That would fix schedule J and give her more time to spend with her children.

[mtbc]

This income/expenses stuff is annoying in penalizing people who have already been taking steps to get their financial house back into order! For instance, mine would have been easier had we not taken the precaution this summer of moving to a cheaper apartment.

[justbroke]

This income/expenses stuff is annoying in penalizing people who have already been taking steps to get their financial house back into order!

Blame your Congresscritter that you elected. Vote them out of office. They placated and catered to the Financial Services sector by allowing them to write the BAPCPA of 2005 which specifically pushes more people into a Chapter 13.

However, I will say that taking steps to get your financial house back in order by not paying back your creditors is not really getting your financial house in order. There are really only three ways to do so. First, pay them all back (via lump sum or some other negotiated settlement). Second, file Chapter 7 and discharge the debt immediately. Third, file Chapter 13 and potentially pay back some or all of the debt. Those who choose to stop paying and just wait and see, will probably fair the worst.

I don't understand why a number of people believe that they are entitled to immediate relief under Chapter 7. Usually it's that they don't want to be on a budget (imposed by a Chapter 13). I agree with others here on the board that a Chapter 13 should never last 5 years. It should be 36 months (3 years) or less, like it was pre-BAPCPA. Also, pre-BAPCPA, the allowed expenses were much more liberal!

[mysticspirit25]

What about quiting one of the jobs?

That would fix schedule J and give her more time to spend with her children.

She is trying to earn money to put her kids through school so they arent in debt like she is. She just picked up the 3rd job not too long ago, and she won't be able to file until Mar due to a $1000 cash advance taken a few months ago, but she cut up all the cards and after Citi and Chase ratejacked her to almost 30% she said screw it, $1700/mo on min pmts is not good. They wouldnt negotiate, so she said the hell with it and threw the cards away. Had the banks let her keep the good interest rate, I doubt she would have considered bk, but they didnt care. No reason either, her ficos are in high 700's but she doesnt care about her credit anymore, her objective is to quit a job to spend more time at home. Good thing she has 300k in 401k.

[LimpDisc]

She is trying to earn money to put her kids through school so they arent in debt like she is. She just picked up the 3rd job not too long ago, and she won't be able to file until Mar due to a $1000 cash advance taken a few months ago, but she cut up all the cards and after Citi and Chase ratejacked her to almost 30% she said screw it, $1700/mo on min pmts is not good. They wouldnt negotiate, so she said the hell with it and threw the cards away. Had the banks let her keep the good interest rate, I doubt she would have considered bk, but they didnt care. No reason either, her ficos are in high 700's but she doesnt care about her credit anymore, her objective is to quit a job to spend more time at home. Good thing she has 300k in 401k.

Is she still paying the CC's?

How long ago was the cash advance? I think it only needs to age 90 days.

[whipster1]

Worst case scenario she pays back the 1000...she really should file the sooner the better. Does she have pets? Does she have to pay for school lunches/band uniforms/sports supplies for her children? Does she drive excessive mileage to get to her 3 jobs? Does she pay for bug spray service, alarm system, can she go and buy some life insurance/aflac etc etc...There are many things that you really should have and that are allowed under a Ch 7.

Remember the budget is a PROJECTED budget.

[mysticspirit25]

Is she still paying the CC's?

How long ago was the cash advance? I think it only needs to age 90 days.

She just stopped after Citi and Chase refused to take her APR back. She is 36 days late. She took out the cash advance in October $1000.00 on Chase, and I know how Chase loves AP's, and she owes them a total of $40k over 2 cards ran up over about 10 years time, so don't want to give them any ammunition. She just charged about $500 worth of Christmas presents in the beginning of December on Citi (she owed 22k) before they rate jacked her, so I told her what is done is done, just throw the cards away. So we figured March/April would be a safe time to file. This really is the best thing for her. She spoke with an attorney and she is driving an 88 Civic with 188k miles on it, and he told her to trade it in for something new, or newer while her credit was still good, so she is going tomorrow to look at an 05 4-runner, I know the owner of the dealer and hopefully I can get her a good deal on it.

Is it ok to buy a car knowing she will be filing BK in the next few months? She intends to keep the car, but the atty she consulted with said it was ok to buy a car. It also gives her a much needed expense on Sch. J.

[LimpDisc]

Sounds like she's getting great advice.

Our attorney gave us the same advice about a newer vehicle. Not looking to defraud anyone by buying a secured asset. We had to buy the newer car to pass the means test and increase our expenses on schedule J.

[mysticspirit25]

Im glad to hear that.

[albacore44]

Sounds like she's getting great advice.

Our attorney gave us the same advice about a newer vehicle. Not looking to defraud anyone by buying a secured asset. We had to buy the newer car to pass the means test and increase our expenses on schedule J.

yep, got the same advice. Att said would you rather be driving a better car or paying back unsecured. i rolled my eyes, thought he was nuts, last thing i needed was to dig deeper in debt. went home, thought about it, yep it made total sense. found a new 2007 Yukon on clearance, got a sweet deal, and not to bad of an interest rate. that was before i stopped paying Cc's, and my credit score was still in the 600's