Can someone plz help with my schd J?

[coolmom04]

What about gifts? Is that something I can add in there somewhere? With four kids... we have a birthday every four months and my older two are invited to birthday parties about once a month!

[ChaseDidThis]

I would think reasonable gifts for your children is to be expected, but gifts for parties your kids attend I don't think would be allowed. You need to concentrate on necessity items for your budget that the trustee wont question. I think if you put down a bunch expenses that are really not needs then they will be questioned and possibly not allowed. Remember that you may be asked to defend these expenses as necessary for your family's well being.

[coolmom04]

You're right... gifts for my kids only!

I've managed to move some numbers around and get our disposible income to $144... a little more work to do!

Since this is for current and future expenses, my middle daughter will begin preschool in September of next year, is it okay to go ahead and include that cost in addition to my son's preschool? And my husband will be attending college in the Fall, so can we include those monthly costs as well? (we are filing in March). If I can put those things down, then everything will be done I think.

[coolmom04]

You're right... gifts for my kids only!

I've managed to move some numbers around and get it to $144 monthly net income. I can't WAIT to meet with my attorney! This is all driving me nuts.

Since this is for current and future expenses, my middle daughter will begin preschool in September of next year, is it okay to go ahead and include that cost in addition to my son's preschool? And my husband will be attending college in the Fall, so can we include those monthly costs as well? (we are filing in March).

[ChaseDidThis]

You're right... gifts for my kids only!

I've managed to move some numbers around and get it to $144 monthly net income. I can't WAIT to meet with my attorney! This is all driving me nuts.

Since this is for current and future expenses, my middle daughter will begin preschool in September of next year, is it okay to go ahead and include that cost in addition to my son's preschool? And my husband will be attending college in the Fall, so can we include those monthly costs as well? (we are filing in March).

I'm reposting a comment that HHM responded to you in another post:

You can "claim" anything, the real question is whether the trustee and court will accept it.

First, do you even need the tuition expense to satisfy whatever requirement you are trying to achieve (i.e. means test and schedule I&J). If the tuition is the only expense that puts you over, meaning satisfies the means test and without which you would be a chapter 13, then the trustee will object. If you don't need it, meaning, you would still show no disposable income, then don't worry about it.

This is what I have been trying to say with some of the expense questions you have, I fear that if you depend on these expenses to keep you in a 7, and the trustee doesn;t allow them, then you will find yourself in a 13.

You made a comment in another thread that you had one car that was not in very good shape and you owned it outright. If you will need to replace it in the next couple years, maybe you should do it now and then you could use the payment as a valid expense. you are filing jointly correct?

I understand that these other expenses happen in real life, but I don't think the trustee is going to allow some of these at the expense of your creditors, he will probably say that you can delay college for a few years and pay back some portion of your debt.

I listed on my petition payments for student loans and the trustee said nothing about them. They were really the only questionable expense I listed, but they would not have been enough to fund a 13, so I believe HHM's reasoning is solid and thats why he let them stay. I also have other expenses such as my kids going to friends parties where they should take a gift, but when that happens, we are usually taking money from the grocery budget to buy a small gift for them. I am glad to see that you are taking a personal interest in your bankruptcy case, as you should, because it is your bankruptcy case and your family's future. I have heard to many stories where people say there attorney did all the paperwork and things didn't add up or they rushed their filing and didn't have their paperwotk in order. Time is on your side so make sure you're prepared well, and remember that your the one that will be asked to justify expenses you list on that petition, not your attorney.

[coolmom04]

Thank you both again... I definitely don't want to use the future stuff then. I don't want to set off any more red flags.

Another question - on the means test, line 19B, National Standards: health care. It automatically gives me a $60/person allowance for the out of pocket cost of health care. That is $360. That is what I need... can I put that on schedule J for medical and dental since the means test automatically gives me that allowance based on the number of people I have in my household? Will that raise a red flag even if I also pay for health savings plan? I never put enough in my health savings plan and DO always end up paying more out of pocket costs at the end of the year... I know this year I ended up paying about $600 out of pocket costs that we didn't have in the health savings plan for reimbursement.

If I can claim it on schedule J, then without claiming any future expenses, it puts my monthly net at -$29.

I forgot to mention.. as far as adding the car... there's no way b/c my husband's income shows that it's all tied up in credit cards and the house and then the obvious stuff they expect us to pay. His car should be great once we can save up the $$ to have it repaired... which we can do after we file.

[ChaseDidThis]

I think you can use some future expenses, it just depends what they are for. Has your family delayed any trips to the doctor or dentist because of lack of money? Any of the kids need braces, etc.. I included all my out of pocket costs( took 2 weeks of digging thru receipts to figure it out - I had no idea I had spent that much) and also included some dental work we have been putting off because of debt, I ended up at about $20.00 over the allowed national standard. My attorney did not want me over the standard, as questions would arise and actually advised I stay $40.00 or so below the standard, says every district has its normal figures that the trustee expects to see, so we just moved the numbers a little bit and all was good.

Health savings plan is same as out of pocket, so 360 minus the 125 already claimed is $235 more that your family is allowed. I just think that most people only think of the big expenses and forget the small ones when they are trying to figure their budget, you need to think of the small ones. Research all your expenditures, unless your taking expensive vacations there's another reason you're $50,000 in debt.

[coolmom04]

My kids are all still young - ages 7 and under. I think they are too young to know if they'll need braces yet.. we had been putting off having my wisdom teeth removed b/c of money, but my mom ended up paying for it a couple months ago.

To be honest, I have no idea how we got to the 50K other than bad decisions. We haven't taken any big vacations. We usually only go on vacation once a year and that is b/c my MIL pays for it. We used the credit cards to pay for my daughter's $700/month preschool/daycare about three years ago when my husband was fired. We had a contract and she had to keep going. We lived off credit cards for about a year actually - paying for everything. I wasn't working either.

What is the allowance for the monthly income to go ch7? I can't remember. When I change the medical/dental to $235, then my net monthly income is $96.

On the vehicle operation expenses section of the means test, line 22, it says we are allowed $402 for two vehicles. This barely covers how much we spend on gas each month. Is this number of $402 supposed to include gas, oil changes, vehicle registration, & property taxes and other routine maintenance like tires?? Or can I put that stuff somewhere else?

I looked here, http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa...xp_Stds_SO.htm, but didn't see anything specifically mentioning what that total is supposed to include. Maybe I just missed it.