Quick ? about the means test

[coolmom04]

On line 20a, it gives me the standard number for Housing and utilities, non-mortgage expenses. Then below on line 32, it says "Other Necessary Expenses: telecommunication services. Enter the average monthly expenses that you actually pay for cell phones, pagers, call waiting, caller identification, special long distance or internet services necessary for the health and welfare of you or your dependents. Do not include any amount previously deducted."

Does this mean that I can count my internet in box 32? Or... is the internet included in box 20a?

[coolmom04]

OOopss.. maybe I should have put this under the general bankruptcy forum? Sorry

[LimpDisc]

Our attorney put the cell phone & Internet charges on that line.

[coolmom04]

Thank you!

When other posters say their attorney came up with totally different numbers on the means test than when they did it themselves... how is that?

Am I doing it right? My husband is paid bi-weekly. I added every paycheck for the past six months (13 total) and then divided it by 6 for the average monthly income. I took the standards for everything and only added our preschool, taxes paid, mortgage, and vehicle payment, etc. The money he pays for insurance and the health savings plan. And... $70/month for cell phones and internet.. but no real "extras" Not even childcare..

It says the median is $81,095 and our income is is $87,948

We end up having a -$336 MDI!

This kills me. We haven't been spending the "allowance" amounts on flood, clothing, etc. We don't even DO anything!! We just pay the stupid cards and then wonder each month why we don't have money to buy new clothes for the baby when she outgrows her current clothes. We even beat ourselves up thinking that we were spending too much money on food, etc. as it is!!!!!

So, am I doing it right? What would an attorney do differently to come up with different numbers?

[LimpDisc]

I thought that I had a very good understanding of the means test going into my consults. I ended up being off on cell phone, Internet, taxes and medical expenses. Also off on how to deduct for my HSA.

My second attorney consult was with a guy that had been a trustee for 15 years. He actually told me that his partner didn't have a very good understanding of the means and shouldn't be doing BK's at all.

Don't beat yourself up too much over the means test.

[Clouddancer]

How were you off on the HSA?

[SPalin]

I originally did the Nolo Means Test and it showed I met Chapter 7, but after meeting with my attorney's paralegal and her number crunching said I could only do Chapter 13! When I did meet with my attorney she asked many more questions and was able to show I could file for Chapter 7. She put my cell, internet and DirectTV on line 2d continuation (page 2). Don't beat yourself up, I had the same feelings, cut back on everything, don't go out to eat at all, try living on $200 a month for food (2 people), no new clothes for the past 9 months, didn't use the AC even on 113 degree days! Just to try and make the payments to the CC companies, who cut my CL in half and then caused me to be over the CL, thus charging me over the CL fees and because I was over for two months in a row...default interest of 33%!!!

[klandsb]

I guess the best answer I can give you is the means test is a base line . You NEED to get the help of a experienced attorney to do the paperwork for you. Its not that the numbers you entered are wrong . I had some expenses that I thought were ok and the attorney questioned them and the amounts. They have a better feel for what is allowed and what isnt and how much they can enter. In my case my 20 yr old son lives with me and has a mininum wage income. I added him into my test to give me the 2 person household numbers. In doing that they also added his income on top of mine but took out his mthly expenses but they didnt in the end take out his entire income so the extra $200 got added onto my pmt. Also like the preschool is that a neccesity ?? I had some daycare for my grandson that I honestly DO pay for (long story).. Attorney stated it would never fly... Had my 341 , explained why I contribute and the trustee agreed to it.. So as easy as the test & figures sound to you they disect everything... You will be fine ,just be honest and get a good/experienced attorney... We all have the same goal here and the information we provide is only from our experiences and everyones is different...

[coolmom04]

We meet with an attorney on 1/12. I haven't tried to find another one to meet with before then b/c I got such great vibes from the attorney I spoke with on the phone. I will look for more though.

I took out the preschool expense and we're still negative on the DMI.

[klandsb]

Yes do not just see one attorney. I met with 3 and all 3 had different attitudes and came up with different figures. GO FIGURE... The first was way to preoccupied with other things. He kept apologizing but I kept thinking he wasnt focused .. The second was a complete JERK. He made the stmt that I wanted to have my cake and eat it too.. Yes he really did... And #3 was the one I went with. Not sure I would make that choice again but after having a heated argument in the hall before my 341 I think he realized that I am not stupid and just willing to settle.
After I paid my retainer ,of course, I was sitting watching Saturday morning TV and this BK attorney came on one of the local TV programs . I knew as soon as I heard her talking that if I could do it over she would be the one for me.. But it was too late and I cant even think about going backwards... I'm just plain tired and want it settled...
Hope that helps.

[coolmom04]

Definitely helps! Thank you. I remember reading about your heated argument with your attorney. I'm glad it helped!