DMI on Means test

[kcfaninin]

If we show a positive DMI on the means test, does it really matter what Schedules I and J show? Why even bother?? We show $420 of DMI on means test, but Schedule J shows -$10. We will be thrown into a Chapter 13, but we don't have the income to fund it. Pretty frustrating!!

[PacificBlue]

Sadly, that is what's happening to just about everyone. Congress got it wrong when they passed this bill. (the means tests and locking an income on BK). We show a negative DMI too and trust me, that is really the case in our situation. Yet, all but one attorney said your screwed. (our words not theirs). We see him Wednesday and will get the real picture. We know IF we are forced into a 13, and it's over $100.00 a month we are done for.

[justbroke]

If we show a positive DMI on the means test, does it really matter what Schedules I and J show?

In most cases, yes it does matter!

Why even bother?? We show $420 of DMI on means test, but Schedule J shows -$10. We will be thrown into a Chapter 13, but we don't have the income to fund it. Pretty frustrating!!

Because you are over-the-median, your expenses are controlled by the IRS Allowances. I'm figuring that if your Means Test is positive and Schedule J is negative, either you're missing things from the Means Test or you have some expenses on your Schedule J that are too high or not allowed.

If you own a home, make sure you included your taxes and insurance for your home on the Means Test. You can just add the taxes and insurance montly cost into your Line 42 expense for your mortgage.

[good2free]

You need to pass the means test first. CH7 or CH 13 is considered only after passing the means test.

[Clouddancer]

In most cases, yes it does matter!

Because you are over-the-median, your expenses are controlled by the IRS Allowances. I'm figuring that if your Means Test is positive and Schedule J is negative, either you're missing things from the Means Test or you have some expenses on your Schedule J that are too high or not allowed.

If you own a home, make sure you included your taxes and insurance for your home on the Means Test. You can just add the taxes and insurance montly cost into your Line 42 expense for your mortgage.

What about HOA dues? I don't see a place for it on the means test.

[justbroke]

What about HOA dues? I don't see a place for it on the means test.

The bulk of my "HOA" dues are actually CDD taxes and are included in our property tax. The rest of my "HOA" dues is only $300/year so that's nothing.

For what it's worth, the HOA dues are included in the IRS Non-Mortgage/Non-Rent expense category. If you believe that the IRS Standard calculates this incorrectly, there's a line on the Means Test to do so. I will warn you that entering anything on Form B22A Line 21 (B22C Line 26) will bring scrutiny.

26: Local Standards: housing and utilities; adjustment. If you contend that the process set out in Lines 25A and 25B does not accurately compute the allowance to which you are entitled under the IRS Housing and Utilities Standards, enter any additional amount to which you contend you are entitled, and state the basis for your contention in the space below:

(NOTE: this is from B22C the Chapter 13 Means Test. The line number is 21 and it references 20A and 20B.)

[JEM]

The bulk of my "HOA" dues are actually CDD taxes and are included in our property tax. The rest of my "HOA" dues is only $300/year so that's nothing.

For what it's worth, the HOA dues are included in the IRS Non-Mortgage/Non-Rent expense category. If you believe that the IRS Standard calculates this incorrectly, there's a line on the Means Test to do so. I will warn you that entering anything on Form B22A Line 21 (B22C Line 26) will bring scrutiny.

I'm totally confused by this...

Is that saying that if your local IRS housing standards are LESS than your mortgage that you plan to reaffirm--you can only enter the standard for your area.

For instance---our local standard is $979 I believe.
Our mortgage including homeowner's INSURANCE, taxes is $1200. HOA due are $204 a year, but paid directly to the mgmt company.

Are we stuck only getting to claim $979 as our housing expense?

[albacore44]

[/B]

I'm totally confused by this...

Is that saying that if your local IRS housing standards are LESS than your mortgage that you plan to reaffirm--you can only enter the standard for your area.

For instance---our local standard is $979 I believe.
Our mortgage including homeowner's INSURANCE, taxes is $1200. HOA due are $204 a year, but paid directly to the mgmt company.

Are we stuck only getting to claim $979 as our housing expense?

No. You claim what you actually pay. There is case law established that allows this, so the UST should not object.

[JEM]

No. You claim what you actually pay. There is case law established that allows this, so the UST should not object.

Ok. Whew. Thank you.

It's been "one of those days" and I think my reading comprehension is suffering.

[justbroke]

Is that saying that if your local IRS housing standards are LESS than your mortgage that you plan to reaffirm--you can only enter the standard for your area.

No. My post was specifically to HOA fees.

In the end, as albacore wrote, you get to claim a mortgage in its entirety. That's all you really need to be concerned with. How it's placed on Form B22A (the Means Test), is math that is readily defined on the form itself.

Again, for HOA dues, they are "included" in the Non-Mortgage/Non-Rent expense category. I will not try to explain further than that.