New and confused & frustrated!

[coolmom04]

I FINALLY talked my husband into filing bankruptcy. It has taken me three years to convince him... so now I am completely frustrated! I just filled out the means test and we apparently have about $300/month of disposable income, which is total CRAP since the means test doesn't include monthly expenses like household items, personal care items, entertainment, etc. Oh.. and what about diapers? I have two children in diapers! I also wasn't sure where to include things like home owners association dues.

I was so sure we'd be able to file, but now he sees this and is getting skeptical again.

I've been reading that some people have been able to file Ch 7 even though they were over, but I am wondering how likely it is. We are apparently about 10K over according to the test

We are barely making it month to month.

Any advice is greatly appreciated

[LimpDisc]

Where did you take the means test? The national standards includes many of those things you listed.

http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/nolo/

[coolmom04]

Hmm.. I guess I didn't read the descriptions well enough. That's where I took the test lol

So, do I still have a shot though? I still don't know how in the world we supposedly have that much disposable income.

[LimpDisc]

The best advice people on this forum will give you is to set up some free consults with at least 3 attorneys. This forum also has tons of great information. Read the "stickys" to find specific information. It's all about expenses.

We thought that would be in a CH13 being we are $14,000 over the median for Colorado. We will file CH7 tomorrow.

[coolmom04]

Thank you Congrats BTW!

I just went back and looked over some stuff. When my husband told me that the amount we pay in taxes per month was only $1000, I thought that seemed really low! So, I just logged into his payroll info and found out he's actually paying $1700/month.. which puts us at -400/month disposable income! I knew I wasn't crazy!

[justbroke]

Well, be careful. How large is your tax refund each year? You may actually have overwithholding (tax refunds) that may reduce your actual tax liability. In any event... good job in working the numbers! Don't forget other deductions like medical, insurance and 401(k) contributions.

[jribe]

I agree w/Justbroke. If you get a tax refund; don't count on getting to use $1700 as an expense on the means test. Most trustees will average out your tax refunds and put it back in the means test for income.

Best thing to do is write down all your expenses, and then do the means test. Look at the national standards to see if you're over/under. There are some things that if you are over on the DMI- you can add to get you lower; life insurance, car payment, heating/air, etc.

I would recommend consulting with a few attorney's to run your number's too.

Also, the form's schedule I & J go over income and expenses too. Look at those.

Thank you Congrats BTW!

I just went back and looked over some stuff. When my husband told me that the amount we pay in taxes per month was only $1000, I thought that seemed really low! So, I just logged into his payroll info and found out he's actually paying $1700/month.. which puts us at -400/month disposable income! I knew I wasn't crazy!

[music12]

the means test is a little bit of a game. to get good at it, you need practice.

you filled out the means test form only once. do it a few more times. you will gradually see where each expense goes. also there are several threads here about people working on their means test asking for reminders about various expenses they may have forgotten. look at those and eventually you will know where all your money goes each month, and your means test results will get better.

so, hang in there. there is still hope!

[cleanslate01]

We were over by about $5000 and still got a Chapter 7. I have 2 children in pampers too. Talk to your lawyer. Ours saw 2 children under 3 years old and clapped his hands and said, "Diapers/wipes $100. Formula $50. Daycare/preschool/babysitter $100. I kind of cringed at that last one since I am a stay at home mom and we really only pay $60/month for preschool but then he asked, "Do you ever pay a babysitter? Even a local teen to come over for a few hours?". I guess we were well within reason for all our expenses and he felt that was acceptable to include even though I pay cash and had no receipts to prove it. Oh, and he also included the co-pays for well-baby visits! We rent our house and he included the lawn service at $25 a month (which will be gone when we finally get a lawn mower), and things like the alarm system, water softener rental, etc. Trustee didn't blink at it during the 341.

[justbroke]

We rent our house and he included the lawn service at $25 a month (which will be gone when we finally get a lawn mower),

This may not actually change too much when you get your own lawnmower. If it's electric, well, there's some electricity cost. However, if it's gasoline powered and it's a big lawn...

[cleanslate01]

Haha! So true. Let's not forget the emotional price of nagging - "Honey, please mow the yard. Darling, if you are taking the children out to play in the backyard, please put a brightly colored hat on them so you can find them in the tall grass".

The expense was $25 a month, on paper. It always seemed to run over that but I didn't want to push it too much with the trustee. Sometimes it was $70 a month when the grass went bonkers. Then in the winter, no bill at all. Just frustrating to pay someone $70 in a month to mow your grass every 2 weeks.

[coolmom04]

So what happens if what you put on paper as monthly expenses doesn't show exactly per month on your bank statements?? For instance, we know we pay $600 every six months in auto insurance, but we pay it twice a year and we usually end up charging it b/c we don't have the $600 sitting around to pay it! So, it doesn't show that we pay it monthly according to our bank records.

[LimpDisc]

So what happens if what you put on paper as monthly expenses doesn't show exactly per month on your bank statements?? For instance, we know we pay $600 every six months in auto insurance, but we pay it twice a year and we usually end up charging it b/c we don't have the $600 sitting around to pay it! So, it doesn't show that we pay it monthly according to our bank records.

It's OK that it doesn't show on your banking statements. Nobody will question your auto insurance.

When you start a "cash only" lifestyle you will be surprised to see where all the money actually goes.

[coolmom04]

It's OK that it doesn't show on your banking statements. Nobody will question your auto insurance.

When you start a "cash only" lifestyle you will be surprised to see where all the money actually goes.

Is it okay to go ahead and go "cash only" now before we actually file?

[LimpDisc]

Is it okay to go ahead and go "cash only" now before we actually file?

You will need to stop using the CC's if you plan on filing BK. You don't want to use your CC's after having a consult with a BK attorney.


It's really nice to only use cash or debit.