Means Test when married, but filing individually

[squeeze]

If you are married, but filing individually for Chapter 7, what parts of your spouse's income is counted as income during the means test?

For example, does rental income count? (on properties entirely owned by spouse)

Does spouse's vacation pay count?

[MSbklawyer]

Your household income is the figure the trustee is interested in. Your income plus whatever income the spouse contributes to household expenses.

If your spouse has income from rental property and contributes all or part of that income to household expenses, then the part contributed counts on the means test.

This is one area where USTs try to bully people. They take the position that ALL the spouse's income is contributed to household expenses. If that is not in fact the case, your attorney needs to be ready to call their bluff. The UST has the burden of proof here. If your spouse doesn't contribute what the UST says he/she does, make them PROVE it.

[squeeze]

So if this rental income is kept in a separate bank account and is used for other investment related purposes, then it would likely be exempt?

[MSbklawyer]

So if this rental income is kept in a separate bank account and is used for other investment related purposes, then it would likely be exempt?

Theoretically, yes. But expect a fight from your UST.

[outsidetool]

In my case, I filed Ch 7, my wife did not. House is in her name only, and we had always had seperate checking accounts. Our combined income was way over median. We came to a "showdown" point with the UST, who wanted to put me in a 13 and pay everyone in full. My wife wanted nothing to do with any of her income going to pay off my creditors, and she refused to comply with any further requests regarding her finances. Don't know that this will at all relate to your pending situation; but does illustrate that there is potential for things to become interesting.

[MSbklawyer]

We came to a "showdown" point with the UST, who wanted to put me in a 13 and pay everyone in full. My wife wanted nothing to do with any of her income going to pay off my creditors, and she refused to comply with any further requests regarding her finances.

How did it all turn out?

[outsidetool]

How did it all turn out?

The UST backed down; my wife wrote a letter stating that she didn't file bankruptcy, and nor had she been involved with any of my poor choices; so she surely wasn't going to help pay for them now. My attorney essentially dared the UST to drag my non-filing wife in for a hearing and propose to force her to help pay off my debts, while her own financial situation was a bit precarious. The plan they were after, while providing for all my debts over the course of a 5-year ch 13 plan, would have left my wife's credit card debts being paid minimum payments. The plan proposed also allowed no expenses towards needed repairs of my wife's house. Nor was there any money allowed for my wife to buy even any Christmas presents, b-day gifts, etc. She made it clear that wasn't happening; and when the time would come for me to ask her for spare money to make my ch 13 payment, she wasn't gonna do it. She indicated in her letter that she foresaw "many future court hearings regarding nonpayment of my husbands ch 13 plan." It all worked out in the end.

[music12]

squeeze, seriously, is your wife this "friend" from your other posts? and she is the one paying you back? why on earth would you withhold this rather relevant piece of information?

if that's the case, i am rather upset with you, as i am sure would other people who spent their time answering your questions in the other posts and giving you advice. if you wnat to try to game the system in whatever ways, that's one thing. just don't try to game us.

[whipster1]

Tried to say the same thing many posts ago...was called dense for thinking such a thing.

[squeeze]

As you can see, I have a lot of questions. It doesn't make sense to try to cover all of my questions in one thread, so I've split them out across different threads. Perhaps this has given the impression of trying to "game" people here, but that's not the case.

Since you asked, the friend is different from the wife. Actually though, she's not yet "the wife". We're engaged. I'm not trying to game anyone here, I'm just asking lots of questions and examing this situation from a number of angles.

thank you for your attention and posts, they are appreciated.

[squeeze]

seems like there are some active imaginations on this board :-) maybe the stress of debt makes people suspicious

[justbroke]

Okay, I'm officially confused.

[squeeze]

me too.

music12, care to explain how you came up with the idea that a friend I had referred to in a different thread was in fact (*gasp!*) my wife?

Even though I don't even have a wife!

As Obama would say, it's silly season around here...

[music12]

i have no stress of debt. i am happily discharged.

the two stories - which now i suppose were only hypothetical (at least the one with the nonexistent wife) - are just too similar for comfort.

i don't think i have ever become suspicious of anybody on this forum. there is just something about your posts, what can I say. be glad i'm not your trustee, because between your trying to reduce your income to having at least something to do with lots of rent from lots of properties you say you don't own, i would scrutinize your documentation like a crazy person until i found out what was really going on. i would be checking the entire history of this friend's property and the entire history of the to-be wife's property, and anything else under the sun.

if there is nothing to find then my suspicion is misplaced. only you know the answer. so good luck!

[squeeze]

It's flattering to be the first guy on bkforum to arouse your suspicions. Though if so, you've no doubt been duped more than once :-)

In my case, there's no secret. Just hypotheticals and pieces in a puzzle - an engagement, a job, a corporation, stock options, a creditor, a judgment, a friend, a loan, a house I didn't own, rent, timing, records, countless f*ing rules to remember and heaven knows what else... if it weren't my life, I'd think it was fictional too.

I feel like an animal caught in a cage, piecing together an escape plan, thinking through all the traps and hazards that lie in wait. I want to be ready for anything. I've made enough mistakes already, now is the time to think, and plan.