10k over the median

[PacificBlue]

We were told by lawyer yesterday we have to go with ch 13 as were were over the median. (Even though the tests showed a negative $$ each month). Our situation is our income will drop considerably in the next year, and our medical expenses will increase. I (the husband) has recurring cancer and was told 6 months to 10 years depending on how my system responds to the treatments.

We live in Oregon by the way. Being over the Oregon income law, and with my serious medical condition, wouldn't that be consider reason for ch 7?

[slam22]

We were told by lawyer yesterday we have to go with ch 13 as were were over the median. (Even though the tests showed a negative $$ each month). Our situation is our income will drop considerably in the next year, and our medical expenses will increase. I (the husband) has recurring cancer and was told 6 months to 10 years depending on how my system responds to the treatments.

We live in Oregon by the way. Being over the Oregon income law, and with my serious medical condition, wouldn't that be consider reason for ch 7?

My advice to you is talk to more than one lawyer. We were 40K over the median but were still able to file a Chapter 7.

[Meatstick]

I agree with slam22 we were also way over the median. We are filing in March and were told CH.7 filing was ok as we more than passed the means test.

Good luck !


Meatstick

[LimpDisc]

Talk to another attorney. We are $14,000 over the median for Colorado and qualify for CH7. It's all about expenses.

[PacificBlue]

Thanks, we are making more appointments this morning and calling all "free advice" over the phone ones. Though our situation is fair at best right now, the medical is (pardon the pun) going to "kill" us very soon. The shots I'm on are $2,800 per shot (ever three months) and the pills are $736.00 per month. Right now our insurance is paying about 85% of it, but we are forced to get new insurance by Jan 1st. We have no idea how much out of pocket will be.

If this cancer does "get me" my wife is left in total ruins, and even before that the quality of our life is stressed (not only from the cancer) but by not being able to pay our bills. The first lawyer told us yesterday "they don't care about what it looks like ahead, just what's your past income and situation".

[LimpDisc]

I would wait for other posters to chime in on your situation. I know there are others on this forum that have dealt with medical issues and bankruptcy. If you're going to have tons of medical bills in the near future you will want to include as much as you can in BK.

[backtoschool]

The longer you can hold out to file, the better, as you want to include as many of your medical expenses as possible. You also want to have your lower income reflected on the means test.

I think with your medical expenses, you should try for a chapter 7, but you should try to include as many of your medical expenses as possible.

I would keep talking to lawyers until you find one that is actually looking at your case on its individual merits and not just crunching numbers.

[PacificBlue]

Two more lawyers (here in Oregon) on the phone said, "Your over the limit, you have to go ch 13" Grrrr... We have a camp trailer we would like to keep making payments on and keep, but ch 13 (in the lawyers words) we would be forced to sell. (even though we owe more on it then it's worth)... Still calling more lawyers..

[justbroke]

Two more lawyers (here in Oregon) on the phone said, "Your over the limit, you have to go ch 13" Grrrr... We have a camp trailer we would like to keep making payments on and keep, but ch 13 (in the lawyers words) we would be forced to sell. (even though we owe more on it then it's worth)... Still calling more lawyers..

You're not forced to sell it or otherwise dispose of it in a Chapter 13. However, keeping it, may mean that your unsecured creditors would need to receive at least the market value of that trailer, over the course of the Plan. This is known as the "liquidation" test. Chapter 13 allows you to keep everything want to keep and that you can afford... but not to the detriment of the unsecured creditors.

[HHM]

First, phone consults are the worst. Those that offer free phone consults as a rule, tend to be the bottom of the barrel as far as BK lawyers go. It is one thing if you live in a rural area and an otherwise good attorney in the nearest major city offers a phone consult to accomodate you, but if you are calling those lawyers that offer phone consults, the advice is usually very poor.

Having said that, if you are over median, any good lawyer will at least set the expectation that you would be a chapter 13, but as others have said, it comes down to expenses. Although it is "possible" to file a chapter 7 and be over median, those case are still very much the exception to the rule. Generally, if you are over median, you will be a chapter 13. When you start getting $10K+ over median, it gets harder and harder to do chapter 7 unless you have higher (reasonable) out of the ordinary expenses.

[PacificBlue]

Yeah, that's what we are finding out real quick here. Laws in Oregon are very rough, or most Oregon lawyers don't want to spend any time going over the situation. We won't file if it has to be a 13. We will try work with our non secured Card companies on our own. Pay one, one month, and so on. Then if/when my health takes a dive and our med bills are through the roof, time loss of work and so on we will go it another go. Thanks all.

[HHM]

Yeah, that's what we are finding out real quick here. Laws in Oregon are very rough, or most Oregon lawyers don't want to spend any time going over the situation. We won't file if it has to be a 13. We will try work with our non secured Card companies on our own. Pay one, one month, and so on. Then if/when my health takes a dive and our med bills are through the roof, time loss of work and so on we will go it another go. Thanks all.

That is probably a mistake, I think you are harboring some myths about chapter 13. If you could get out of debt in 5 years or less on your own, then there is no reason you would be considering BK. Chapter 13 is about putting you back in control of your financial life and getting out of debt.

[PacificBlue]

What I'm hearing and reading about 13 in Oregon is you are stripped down to just living. We lose our trailer, (it is considered a "toy'. even though we are still making payments on it) lose our SUV, even though we are paying on that. Everything goes towards paying off your "non secured" debts.

It's the credit card companies that put us in the situation. They lowered our limit (we were not and have not even been charging anything for like 6 months) and raised our interest rate. We were doing okay but before that, but now it would take 20 years to pay them back at the new higher rate.

You maybe right, it could be a mistake, but right now I feel it's what's best for us. Tomorrow if cancer puts me in a even less situation then I will have to rethink it. I was told in Sept, I would have anywhere from 6 months to 10 years. I'm not living the last years of my life out in any worst situation that what I'm in now.

We may not have enough money left over right now to do much, but as it is we go to the coast in our trailer for a week end and enjoy what life there is left.

[HHM]

Why would you lose your SUV

I get the sense you are talking to the wrong lawyers or "people" that don't know anything about chapter 13's.

Yes, the trailor would go....BUT YOU ARE IN DEBT, put it in perspective.

[klandsb]

Listen to HHM please. In a Chapter 13 they give you a feasible plan. Yea, you may not go to luxury hotels for vacation every year but they do take your income vs your legitimate expenses and work out a repayment plan. At least then if something terrible would happan (god forbid) your wife will not be left with a total disaster on top of everything else and could probally then convert to a Chapter 7... Or even you could convert if your medical expenses change drastically