341 today....went ok for the most part.

[Llelxon]

Had our 341 meeting today....we went 7th in the afternoon session. Went pretty standard, asked a couple questions about the value of our timeshare and how much the maintenance fee was. Wants to see our 2009 tax return after mentioning that we received 6k last year....although that was due to relocation last year and the company providing a gross up to cover taxes, etc.

Biggest surprise was no question of being 50k over means test last year due to the relocation and all of the movers costs, etc. that company paid for showing on my income last year. I really thought they were gonna grill me about the change in income even though it wasn't real income. Also thought they may question my bonus that will me in March, but not a peep even though it shows this years as a line item on my pay stub. Granted it is not a sure thing, but thought they would ask about it.

[Meatstick]

Congrats on the 341. We will also be way over the median and have been but pass the means test and out DMI is in the negative by a few hundred dollars.

Anyways it sounds like you sailed right thru. Good luck on the rest !


Meatstick

[HakunaMatata]

Like you, I was surprised none of my anticipated questioning surfaced. Thus far, all has been smooth sailing; and, I hope the same for you! Congrats on successfully completing another step in the process! Happy 60 days!

[frogger]

Congratulations!

[Llelxon]

Well spoke to soon .... the UST contacted my attorney today and wants detailed copies of several things and is questioning my disposable income. Does anyone have and ideas on disposable income? The UST is questioning that I have disposable income, but I didn't put that much rigor in to filling our my expenses and think they are probably low. Is there guidelines for what to use? My post filing expenses are going to be different that pre-filing so that I don't get into the same situation. I don't have anyway to justify what I may be budgeting as my outputs don't show that over the past few months, but I was paying 1800/month in debt payments, so had to be very tight and going the wrong way.....anyway is there a guide I should use and maybe re-submit my monthly expenses?

Thanks and sorry to ramble, but was so optimistic after the 341 and now I am a bit down on the whole thing thinking it's going to be a battle with the ust.

[jjsmith]

I believe the trustees go off the IRS guidelines for expenses. You can go here to look. I know at the top it says the expense for bankruptcy are given on the US Trustee website, but everything else I can find says the IRS guidelines are what the trustee uses and I can't find anything on the US Trustee site.

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96543,00.html

[Meatstick]

Llexon, Iam sorry to hear about the UST getting involved. I wouldn't worry to much as long as your petition and the figures you entered where correct and can be proven.

With being $50k over the median, was that for the entire year or just for the 6 months prior to filing ? Have you lost that or any income that can bring you closer to the median ? What are your expenses and are you re-affirming anything ? Sounds like the UST either picked your file for an audit and/or saw something that threw up a red flag.

In any event try not to worry too much. We are $10k-$12k over the 6 months median right now and will earn a total of $130k by years end. My wife isnt working anymore since July and I am not working my 2nd job as of Dec.1 so by the time we will file our income will be reduced by about $25k but we will still be over the median. With minimal expenses our DMI will be in the negative. Hell, we arent keeping either of our homes and not going to re-affirm my wife's car and we still will have a negative DMI. Our lawyer at first look said Ch.13 but after examing our expenses said we will qualify for a Ch.7.

What does you lawyer have to say ?


Meatstick

[justbroke]

It is perfectly normal for the UST to get involved when debtors are over-the-median. In fact, it should be expected. The UST will challenge your expenses to determine if you really qualify to receive a discharge under Chapter. That's their job and their only job. The panel trustee just deals with assets, liquidation and the estate. The UST is all about the administration of discharges.

Having wrote that, you and your attorney will need to look at the specifics of what the UST is requesting, as that will give you the biggest hing what they plan to attack (if they do attack). Hopefully your attorney and you are prepared to not only demonstrate that the expense(s) are valid, but that they are also allowable!

Biggest surprise was no question of being 50k over means test last year due to the relocation and all of the movers costs, etc. that company paid for showing on my income last year. I really thought they were gonna grill me about the change in income even though it wasn't real income.

This is actually not the job of the panel trustee, but the job of the United States Trustee (UST). The panel trustee, the one who runs the 341 Meeting, is just to manage the liquidation of the estate.

The UST's job is to prevent as many people as possible from obtaining relief through Chapter 7.

[Llelxon]

Llexon, Iam sorry to hear about the UST getting involved. I wouldn't worry to much as long as your petition and the figures you entered where correct and can be proven.

With being $50k over the median, was that for the entire year or just for the 6 months prior to filing ? Have you lost that or any income that can bring you closer to the median ? What are your expenses and are you re-affirming anything ? Sounds like the UST either picked your file for an audit and/or saw something that threw up a red flag.

In any event try not to worry too much. We are $10k-$12k over the 6 months median right now and will earn a total of $130k by years end. My wife isnt working anymore since July and I am not working my 2nd job as of Dec.1 so by the time we will file our income will be reduced by about $25k but we will still be over the median. With minimal expenses our DMI will be in the negative. Hell, we arent keeping either of our homes and not going to re-affirm my wife's car and we still will have a negative DMI. Our lawyer at first look said Ch.13 but after examing our expenses said we will qualify for a Ch.7.

What does you lawyer have to say ?


Meatstick

We are not 50K over for this year, but we are real close to the median. The 50k overage last year was not real income. I relocated with work and they paid the moving company 15k, paid house hunting trips 5k, closing costs etc. 3k, duplicate carrying costs 4k, tax gross up 12k, etc to cover the moving costs and because that money shows up as income they do the gross up to cover the tax liability.

One thing is that that would help us is that my MIL is very sick and moved in with us in August. I wanted to list her as a dependent, but the attorney thought it would be easier to explain if we didn't due to it being fairly recent. Additionally she is on complete disability, but gives over to us 200/month of her disability to help defer costs. Our attorney had us list the 200 as income even thought it comes from an exempt source. I didn't think we should have to list it. Anyway I followed the advice of a few on the board and followed my attorneys advice.

The UST is asking for the past 6 months salary, detailed tax returns for 2007/2008, 401k loan amoratization table. Also the UST noted that I had 500/month disposable income on the expense sheet I filed and that I was still putting 7% of my pay into my 401k. The budget was not a post bankruptcy budget, I listed the expenses based on actuals, but I am going negative every month with that budget and it is only that low due to having to really scrimp to meet the monthly debt payments. The 401K money I try to put in because my employer matches the funds and it is crazy to not try very hard to get the match.

[justbroke]

The UST is asking for the past 6 months salary, detailed tax returns for 2007/2008, 401k loan amoratization table. Also the UST noted that I had 500/month disposable income on the expense sheet I filed and that I was still putting 7% of my pay into my 401k.

There it is, right there. First, you can't use 401(k) deductions as an expense in a Chapter 7 (unless you can prove it's necessary... like close to retirement... really close). Second, the UST seems to already think you have $500 to spend, so s/he is probably going to file a Motion to Dismiss under 11 USC 707(b).

The 401K money I try to put in because my employer matches the funds and it is crazy to not try very hard to get the match.

Yes, always take the free money, but understand that in a Chapter 7, the 401(k) contribution is not an "allowable" expense.

As for the disabled MIL, I think your attorney did the right thing, although I personally may have listed her as a dependent.

Looks like your lawyer and you have some work to do to get the expenses sorted and to, hopefully, still keep you under the $182.50 income limit.