Notice of Presumed Abuse

[LJoutWest]

Our attorney contacted us today that last Friday, the 27th of Nov., and not surprisingly, the UST has filed a notice of presumed abused, meaning that at first look they have determined we have not passed the means test. Now we have 30 days for a motion to be filed by them or by a creditor to file a motion to dismiss. He further told us that our means test form is what the UST will now use to determine whether to file for dismissal or conversion to Chapter 13. They will look at that and determine whether to file a motion and why or not to file a motion and why. Once we have that we can then consider our options. Our attorney told us he has only had one filing like this and about 10 days later after examining the means test form the UST filed that they were not filing a motion. So we are in a wait and see mode now. Guess there is nothing more to do for now. It will depend on what motion they file and their reasoning and then we can determine if we have a good legal supporting argument to oppose the motion.

Not unexpected but I sure dislike this 60 days stuff.

[Llelxon]

Did you file chapter 7 knowing that you did not pass the means test?

[justbroke]

Was the "presumed" abuse box checked on your Means Test form (B22A)? When was your 341 Meeting?

[AngelinaCatHub]

I have seen many such motions. They usually turn out to be small details when closely looked at are turned around. Sounds like this happened with you. 'Hub

[HHM]

Generally, you will get these notices if you fail Part I of the means test (over/under median). So the UST will file the Notice of presumed abuse to by more time to evaluate your Part II means tests and schedules I&J.

[LJoutWest]

HHM thanks. I talked to our attorney and since we failed the Part I it is just the UST buying time to review and make a decision based on Part II and schedules I & J like you said. Our attorney said hold the course, he's not worried about it. Out of twenty-five years of doing this he had this happen one other time this year and it went through. That client was over the means test but under on Part II and on the schedule I & J after review they did not file a motion just a motion that they were not opposing the filing. I don't have the filing on this laptop but I know we were over on Part I. Our 341 was November 17 and we had to answer like 8 questions from the UST and amend the filing which we did. That was due Wed. the 25th (day before Thanksgiving) and then the 27th the UST filed this.

Does this reset the 60 day clock?

[justbroke]

Does this reset the 60 day clock?

No. The discharge bar date can only be extended upon a separate Motion by the UST or a creditor.

[good2free]

Once they look at your modified means test numbers, they will remove the motion.
I hope things will go in the right direction for you from now on.

I hate layers who does these mistakes (I had similar problems with mine)

[Kingxray]

Our attorney contacted us today that last Friday, the 27th of Nov., and not surprisingly, the UST has filed a notice of presumed abused, meaning that at first look they have determined we have not passed the means test. Now we have 30 days for a motion to be filed by them or by a creditor to file a motion to dismiss. He further told us that our means test form is what the UST will now use to determine whether to file for dismissal or conversion to Chapter 13. They will look at that and determine whether to file a motion and why or not to file a motion and why. Once we have that we can then consider our options. Our attorney told us he has only had one filing like this and about 10 days later after examining the means test form the UST filed that they were not filing a motion. So we are in a wait and see mode now. Guess there is nothing more to do for now. It will depend on what motion they file and their reasoning and then we can determine if we have a good legal supporting argument to oppose the motion.

Not unexpected but I sure dislike this 60 days stuff.

Don't mean to be a downer or to make you nervous, but you should take a statement of presumed abuse seriously. Not that you should act on it but just beware of it. The UST has 30 days from the date of the statement of abuse to withdraw or file a motion to dismiss. We had this happen to us twice. Both times the UST filed a motion to dismiss/convert. The first case we let get dismissed and changed our means test and refiled. On our current case the UST filed statement of abuse and on the 30th day filed a motion to dismiss. We had our first hearing (telephonic, did not have to attend) and the UST agreed that if we amended our means test and added the expense that they would not allow the first time we filed and lower a few other expenses that the UST would not contest it. We filed our amended return and are awaiting for the UST's response.

We also did not pass the means test until part II or III (can't remember). You can get a copy of your means test on Pacer. You can also keep track of your case on Pacer. It will show you if the UST files a motion to dismiss or withdraw.

I hope I didn't freak you out. I am just telling you our experience. I am sure the other posters are right and they just need more time to review your case.
Good luck and keep us posted.

[LJoutWest]

No, your not causing me to get nervous because right after our 341 the UST person met with us and went through the concerns their office had. We then had 1 week to file an amended return and we did, adjusting our expenses per them. Now we are waiting. If it comes back they want to dismiss (our attorney feels that is highly unlikely) or convert (possible) then we will look at their reasons and decide our action. So yep, could go one way but no sense worrying about it. We'll wait for their decision and then choose what is best for us with our attorney's advice. Thanks for sharing your experience though as it provides some insight and sounds like we are in a similar boat.