objections to discharge

[BoomerSooner]

my attorney sent me a letter that was from one of my creditors. It states "between 6/20/09 and 8/7/09 your client accumulated $6749 in retail charges."

they are saying that there is evidence and sufficient basis to object to the discharge. I have not been able to reach my attorney yet, but he told me when we filed that 90 days was the furthest they could go back for this type of thing.
I'm now getting worried. Who determines whether or not this is dischargable? I have my 341 in a week.

[albacore44]

Which creditor was it ?? with something like that it is best to let it age longer before filing, so it doesnt look like you maxed out you CC right before you filed.

[ecsclb1724]

when did you file? If the credit card company can prove that you were planning to file when you made the purchases it could be seen as fraudulent. $6,800 is a lot to charge in a month and a half.

[BoomerSooner]

filed the end of october. Yes, they were a lot of charges. It was mostly living expenses.
I mean, I had no idea I was going to file until 2 weeks before I actually did. The creditor is bank of america, btw.

[BoomerSooner]

Which creditor was it ?? with something like that it is best to let it age longer before filing, so it doesnt look like you maxed out you CC right before you filed.

would have been nice if my F******ing attorney would have mentioned that. =\

[justbroke]

Relax BoomerSooner... relax. Your attorney does know what s/he is doing. The limit is 90 days for a "presumption" of non-dischargeability. Anything before that, any creditor can claim that you were insolvent and knew that you wouldn't/couldn't pay it back. This is especially true when you don't even make one payment on the debt before filing!

Now, if that was all for living expenses, it's easy to rebut and defeat any case where you were using the card for living expenses. The letter is only a warning, and an attempt to get you to settle. However, there is no rush! You haven't even had your 341 Meeting yet. The creditor will have 60 days from your 341 Meeting to actually file a "complaint" on dischargeability. This is not "urgent". So, again, I say... please relax.

Now, your attorney may charge you additional fees if you actually go into an adversary proceeding (complaint). These can get costly to litigate and is why the creditor "warns you... because they don't want significant costs either. What they'll probably do, is wait for a response from your attorney and then determine if they want to do a Rule 2004 Examination on you (deposition) to learn more. Then they'll decide on whether they want to pursue the non-dischargeability complaint. It can cost them $4K or more to litigate the complaint, but if they win, they may be able to add their lawyer fees on top of what you owe, and it's non-dischargeable... ever.

So, relax, wait for your attorney to call you back, or speak to your attorney at your 341 Meeting.

[BoomerSooner]

Relax BoomerSooner... relax. Your attorney does know what s/he is doing. The limit is 90 days for a "presumption" of non-dischargeability. Anything before that, any creditor can claim that you were insolvent and knew that you wouldn't/couldn't pay it back. This is especially true when you don't even make one payment on the debt before filing!

Now, if that was all for living expenses, it's easy to rebut and defeat any case where you were using the card for living expenses. The letter is only a warning, and an attempt to get you to settle. However, there is no rush! You haven't even had your 341 Meeting yet. The creditor will have 60 days from your 341 Meeting to actually file a "complaint" on dischargeability. This is not "urgent". So, again, I say... please relax.

Now, your attorney may charge you additional fees if you actually go into an adversary proceeding (complaint). These can get costly to litigate and is why the creditor "warns you... because they don't want significant costs either. What they'll probably do, is wait for a response from your attorney and then determine if they want to do a Rule 2004 Examination on you (deposition) to learn more. Then they'll decide on whether they want to pursue the non-dischargeability complaint. It can cost them $4K or more to litigate the complaint, but if they win, they may be able to add their lawyer fees on top of what you owe, and it's non-dischargeable... ever.

So, relax, wait for your attorney to call you back, or speak to your attorney at your 341 Meeting.

thanks so much. this really helped me to chill out. For what it's worth, I was 100% current on all payments up until the point of filing. I never had any intention of doing this.

[ecsclb1724]

if you made payments up until you filed and they were on living expenses (I'm sure your credit card statements would show that too, nothing like furniture purchases or jewelry or anything like that) then I'm sure you're fine

[2manybills]

Just Broke is right. Relax and wait to talk with your attorney. More than likely they are trying to squeeze some money out of you. But if the charges were for everyday living expenses, you will be fine.

[leena]

Bank of America complains about everything. I am thankful I paid them off 1.5 years before I filed, because a friend who filed BK 2 years ago also got hassles from them (attorney fixed it) and an unemployed friend has been hounded by them even though she is trying to pay. It's ok, your attorney will handle it.

Oh, I had their card for ten years before I did make one payment 10 days late and they managed to get me with $50.00 in fees! Jerks.

[music12]

i think if you paid up until the point of filing, they would have a very hard time proving you made the charges intending not to pay them back. because you did pay back as agreed until you finally filed. so i agree with the others, try to relax.

one question i do have is, how can living expenses run up to $6749 in a month and a half, unless it includes rent somehow. this is probably what BofA is hoping a judge/trustee would wonder as well.

[frogger]

one question i do have is, how can living expenses run up to $6749 in a month and a half, unless it includes rent somehow. this is probably what BofA is hoping a judge/trustee would wonder as well.

I was wondering about that too. That's a lot of money to spend in 6 weeks.

[jribe]

filed the end of october. Yes, they were a lot of charges. It was mostly living expenses.
I mean, I had no idea I was going to file until 2 weeks before I actually did. The creditor is bank of america, btw.

are you certain they were all living expenses?

What type of "living expenses"?

If there is anything that could be considered a luxury- expect to pay BOA back.

If there was any money repaid to someone else- expect to pay BOA back.

If money was spend buying furnishings, electronics etc- expect to pay BOA back.

I would also expect an uphill battle with this. Most attorneys actually recommend waiting 60-90 days after the last charge on the card before filing.

It depends on BOA- how much of a hassle they want to cause. If they think they have a case (and they'll have great lawyers) they will fight it so you will pay them back.

[backtoschool]

The formal time limit definition of "insolvency" for bankruptcy purposes is 90 days within filing. 90 days within filing for bankruptcy you are considered insolvent, and if you charge large items on your cards within those 90 days, your creditors can file an adversary proceeding claiming that you made those charges knowing you could not pay the charges back. Typically, adversarial proceedings cost around $5,000 to file, so the charges would have to be more than that for the creditor to feel the case was worth it.

If that $6749 was a cash advance or a balance transfer, then the creditor is probably going to go after you to get that charge exempt from discharge.

But if the $6749 is a series of small payments to grocery stores, your cell phone bill, gas stations, etc, then no creditor is most likely going to come after you.

If there are one or two large charges for big ticket items such as appliances, or a vacation or trip, or electronics, then the creditors might come after you for the large charges.

It all depends on what the charges were for.

[Ablazed]