Need Help found Errors on my Schedule J and my 341 meeting is next week.

[tlcabk]

I found errors on our Schedule J (shows 50$ too high on Electric expense, needs to be reduced, but vet expense is 50 too low, we have six pets). We told Attn how much this expense was but they reduced it so we would not have a negative amount on 20c.

I have receipts to back up pet expense.

I advised paralegal as soon as we received the copies of what was filed, but she keeps jerking me around and avoiding my calls about making the corrections.

What do I do? Do we have to amend befare the meeting or Can I bring it up at the 341 meeting? Paralegal is concerned trustee will think there's a problem and push us to a 13 but line 20c is only $3.42 and would only go up.

I think she's afraid to tell the attorney that she failed to provide us our forms before we came in to sign them so we were rushing to get data entered that she failed to update prior to our appointment.

[LimpDisc]

Most of our utilities show a little more than we actually pay, but all are below the allowable standards for our area. We asked the attorney about it this week. He said they do have some wiggle room with those numbers. He said we wouldn't need to provide documentation because they won't be questioned with them being below the standards.

They might have put the pet expense lower because they don't think the trustee will accept the higher number you provided. How much did you state your pet expenses totaled monthly? We all love our pets, but the trustee doesn't have to accept a dollar amount that they believe is too high.

[tlcabk]

We wanted to claim what we pay, and the atty said it would be considered too high, so we said, fine, 100 per mth then taking off the flea and heartworm meds, and they said that they needed line 20c to not be negative since we are keeping a car with a payment and needed to show we could afford to pay it, so they dropped the vet/pet down to 50 per mth.

If they were to fix the Vet back to 100 it and fix the electric down the two would wash each other out. Doe we have to make the cahnge per line item or is it ok since they net the same result????

We have 3 cats and 3 large dogs. I have the receipt for just paying 512.00 for the annual shots, and checkup for the 3 dogs, and even claiming only 1 bag of food per month for the cats (11$ per mth) and 1 bag of dog food (30$ per mth) and 2 tubs of kitty litter per mth indoor cats. That averages 104 per mth and that does not even include what we pay for Flea control and Heartworm meds which runs about 30.00 per mth per dog so that would be another 90$.

[LimpDisc]

We wanted to claim what we pay, and the atty said it would be considered too high, so we said, fine, 100 per mth then taking off the flea and heartworm meds, and they said that they needed line 20c to not be negative since we are keeping a car with a payment and needed to show we could afford to pay it, so they dropped the vet/pet down to 50 per mth.

If they were to fix the Vet back to 100 it and fix the electric down the two would wash each other out. Doe we have to make the cahnge per line item or is it ok since they net the same result????

We have 3 cats and 3 large dogs. I have the receipt for just paying 512.00 for the annual shots, and checkup for the 3 dogs, and even claiming only 1 bag of food per month for the cats (11$ per mth) and 1 bag of dog food (30$ per mth) and 2 tubs of kitty litter per mth indoor cats. That averages 104 per mth and that does not even include what we pay for Flea control and Heartworm meds which runs about 30.00 per mth per dog so that would be another 90$.

My guess would be that the attorney thinks they will question the higher pet expense, but will not question the higher electric. Add up your utilities and see if they total less then the standards for your area. They probably are at or below standard.

As far as having receipts for the pet expenses...

Someone could show monthly receipts for $200 DirecTV programming with every channel, but that doesn't mean the trustee will accept it.

[tlcabk]

How do I find the average for my area? I live in SC.

[LimpDisc]

http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20091101/meanstesting.htm

You will need to choose your state from the drop down menu for local standards. The chart breaks it down by county and number of people in the household.

[music12]

follow your attorney's lead. if he says it's better this way, then say nothing about it. you are following your lawyer's advice. when they ask you if everything in the petition is correct and accurate, simply say "yes". you provided the accurate info to your attorney and this is what he did. you accept it. your attorney also signed it to say that as far as he knows (and he does because you told him) everything is complete and accurate. so just let it be.

that may be hard to do for you (and me) given your obvious integrity. but sometimes you just need to go with the flow.

[justbroke]

I think you need to trust your attorney. It reads like the attorney has weighed all the data and has correctly suggested that in order to reaffirm on your car, you need to show that you are not negative every month. Plain and simple.

Remember, Schedule J is not always a true reflection of your actual expenses. Many people (and even some Trustees force people to) lower their actual costs to stay below the radar and to demonstrate that they have done "belt tightening" in this time.

You pay your attorney for this counseling and to get your case through without any litigation (or objections). I will tell you now, that while I feel for you personally with pets, the Court will never allow you to put an above average number of pets and an above average cost in pet healthcare, over your creditors. It's cruel, but it is true.

[tlcabk]

Our problem is that I don't think the attorney knows. We can't seem to get past the paralegal who claims she has told him and that he is supposedly going to amend the item. But in 3 weeks she has avoided my calls and emails and get defensive when I push the issue by keep calling and sending emails to determine how to proceed. She just keeps saying that "if we amend this figure you'll get pushed to a 13 since you'll have $56.00 in net income on line 20c. "

To which I keep saying then isn't now the time to make corrections in other area's like to vet expense, or groceries which she has at 450 for a family of 3. We definatley spend no less than 600+ per mth on groceries as my husband is diabetic.

I don't get why it's a problem to make a correction, if it's wrong, and "by law" I need to correct it, than I want to do it right.

My concern is this. If the trustee asks if everything on the petition is accurate and I believe the net result is even if the split (Electric to Groc) is not, am I required to speak to that split issue?

If I don't what is the risk that they don't let us make any corrections at all since I didn't speak up or correct it pre 341?

I AM murphy's law, all weird things tend to happen to our family, so get a little freaked out about pushing any envelopes.

I am definately calling the attorney today and demanding that we have a call with him on Monday (when my husband is off) and voice all these concerns to the actual attorney and not the paralegal. Hopefully we will be able to talk to him before our 341 meeting.

[LimpDisc]

We can only advise that you let the attorney do his job. He's working the numbers so you won't have issues. He knows what will or will not be accepted by the trustees. Go ahead and push for $100+ in pet expenses. Just don't blame the attorney if you end up in chapter 13.

[maddog2112]

What limpdisc said!!! Don`t worry about it, the trustee won`t even blink at that. Try not to worry so much, it`ll be just fine. Trust your lawyer he does this everyday!!

[tlcabk]

Thank you for all the input. It has been very calming to be able to simply bounce this off of people who are in the mix and know what I am going through.

I have been going through my forms now with more insight and have realized that she also made a few mistakes that I didn't catch before filing:
1: She assumed a $240 item was actually 1,240 for contributions we made last year for charitable organization form B7 item 7. Gifts

2: They also failed to add under losses a car insurance claim from February that resulted in our vehichle being repaired. All money was paid to repair shop so maybe it doesn't count?

On B61:

3: My daughter turned 20 just before we filed and the file still shows 19
4: My Length of employemnt was not updated from 3 months to 7 months

5: On Current Monthly Income Calculations for last 6 mths befor filing: She showed my husbands unemployemnt pay as a lump sum in one month as opposed to putting it across the months it was for. She showed it all under 5 months ago and not across 4 & 5 months ago.

Are any of these items significant requiring correction or acknowledgement of errors to trustee at 341 we asked if petition is correct???

[music12]

the charitable contributions might have been a problem if they were in the last 6 months, but you said last year so i think it doesn't matter.

do talk to your attorney but start preparing yourself to agree not to change the pet and electricity expenses. your paralegal is correct. so is justbroke. we are telling you, don't insist on this because you will single handedly ruin your bk. why would you want to do that? you are not a lawyer so you hired one. some lawyers screw their clients but this one, and his paralegal, are doing what is best for you. let it be. just practice with your spouse asking each other "is the petition accurate" and answering "yes".

[tlcabk]

Thanks for the input. I sent the paralegal an email identifying the items mentioned above one last time and let her know that we wanted to have her schedule a call between us and te Attorney on Monday (our 341 is Friday) so he can advise us (so that we can confirm he is aware of this since we are not sure he is.) We further stated that we did NOT want to change anything we did not need to change. That we simply had questions and we were relying on his knowledge and expertise to advise us since that is what we paid him to do.

This way, when I am asked by trustee, I can say with a clear conscious that as far as I am concerned the forms are accurate (per my attorney).

[music12]

sounds good i would just say "yes" rather than "as far as i am concerned etc.". good luck and let us know what happened.