Legal Seperation?

[backtoschool]

TeacherMomma,

I know you are upset and you feel that your back is against the wall in regards to your bankruptcy situation. But in reading this thread I have to say that HHM was simply trying to show you the complexity of your situation. I do not see any negative tone or disrespect in HHM's posts.

As regards to your idea of legal separation, I think that the trustee and US trustee only have to look at your dismissed case, and your new status as legally separated, (which will occur after you were dismissed) and they will raise a giant red flag in regards to your new bankruptcy filing. I do not think that the status will help you. I think it will be challenged by the US trustee. Of course I am not an attorney.

I know that you are not interested in putting your loans into forbearance as we have discussed in other threads, but if you put the loans into forbearance for several months while you saved up your legal fees, that would be another option for you to take.

Just my opinion......

[TeacherMomma]

Who said I wasn't interested in having them in forbearance? If I qualified for it, I would do it. These are PRIVATE student loans for which I have exhausted all of the options on. Even in school status doesn't qualify me. These are not federal loans.
And seeing as the UST said to me and my husband "a)you need to quit your job for this to work or b) get seperated or divorced-that wil make this doable, if either of those happens you'll be fine"....and he wasn't joking. I don't think it will be an issue.

[shabam]

I agree with HHM on this issue. With such a case, you needed a lawyer. What did you seriously expect? Pro se is for those who have simple cases. At the very least, I would be looking at a ch 11.

From the start, when you said you had close to $200k in student loans and were having trouble, I saw red flags. I hope for your sake that you graduated with a law degree or some other high paying degree, in order to pay for these loans. To have amassed so much student debt, you must have attended a private college or lived off student loans.

Ever heard the saying the poor man pays twice? Definitely applies to bk. I am glad I made do and saved up for a lawyer. Sure it took 7 months worth of putting money aside but I did it.

[OHBOY]

Looking at bk Schedule I (CMI), it just says "The column labeled “Spouse” must be completed in all cases filed by joint debtors and by every married debtor, whether or not a joint petition is filed, unless the spouses are separated and a joint petition is not filed "

Actually I too was curious as to what exactly constitutes being 'separated'...especially since my state ( FL) does not have 'legal separation' available...though it is quite affordable for an individual to get a divorce on a 'do it yourself basis'/without a lawyer, as long as there are no children involved, and both parties have come to an agreement on the terms..

Anyhow, I am glad 'Msbklawer' quoted the applicable USC code that gives the details on the topic of what is considered to be truly 'separated'... (with the word itself not needing any further explanation).

In my humble opinion to try to share the same roof after 'separating' MAY have been exceptable to the british prince and his wife (Fergie) after they were separated (yes, they did live in the same place...one at each end of the place)...however, there was no bankruptcy court involved...and, I do believe that the bk system would just 'slightly' frown on your idea of 'separation'...

I was also interested in learning that the court would not allow student loans as an expense deduction, especially since I thought that in general student loans could not be discharged throughout bk.

Would seem to be not only logical, but also fair to be able to allow those mandatory repayments expenses.

Have you considered some free consultations with a couple of attorneys in hopes to find a way out of your dilemma ?
__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________

Uhhh...by the time I posted this, a couple other posts were already showing up explaining the type of student loan..which of course no longer leaves me puzzled as to 'why' they were not accepted as an expense...

[MSbklawyer]

And seeing as the UST said to me and my husband "a)you need to quit your job for this to work or b) get seperated or divorced-that wil make this doable, if either of those happens you'll be fine"....

Good for your trustee. My faith in their office is restored. I didn't think there were any like that left.

Now, that being said: In a time where unemployment is nearly 10% and the divorce rate is nearly 50%; but yet the government offers advantages to employed and married people if they'll only become unemployed and un married, isn't it time to refresh Jefferson's tree of liberty?

[OhioFiler]

Who said I wasn't interested in having them in forbearance? If I qualified for it, I would do it. These are PRIVATE student loans for which I have exhausted all of the options on. Even in school status doesn't qualify me. These are not federal loans.
And seeing as the UST said to me and my husband "a)you need to quit your job for this to work or b) get seperated or divorced-that wil make this doable, if either of those happens you'll be fine"....and he wasn't joking. I don't think it will be an issue.

In defense of HHM and backtoschool, both of whom seemed to want to help you, if you had this advice from the UST why would you be asking a bunch of novices on here for advice?

Go get your divorce and refile. Marriage is nothing more than a property contract.

[backtoschool]

Who said I wasn't interested in having them in forbearance? If I qualified for it, I would do it. These are PRIVATE student loans for which I have exhausted all of the options on. Even in school status doesn't qualify me. These are not federal loans.
And seeing as the UST said to me and my husband "a)you need to quit your job for this to work or b) get seperated or divorced-that wil make this doable, if either of those happens you'll be fine"....and he wasn't joking. I don't think it will be an issue.

TeacherMomma, we have discussed in private messages and on other threads that private loans through Sallie Mae will allow forebearance options you have not done yet. But I am not here to argue with you. I was simply pointing out that by putting the loans into forbearance you could come up with the money to pay a lawyer.

But if divorce and separation is a better solution for you, then good luck with that and I wish you the best.

[shabam]

When it comes to bk and money, we are not here to coddle each other. While we support each other, I think it's great that people here will tell it like it is. Bk is a serious matter.

I have disagreed with HHM on other generic bk issues like whether people filing BK affects the economy, which he's dead wrong on, however his advice regarding the bk process is second to none. HHM is not some beat around the bush kind of guy and that is exactly what we need in BK. That is exactly what teachermomma needs.

My case was nowhere near as complicated but had the potential to get complicated, therefore, I saved up and paid for a good reputable lawyer. There were numerous times prior to filing that I thought go Pro Se and save the $$$$. Yet hiring my lawyer was be best investment I made. I have never saved more than $100 in my life. If I could save $2.5K for the lawyer and fees, so can anyone else.

[TeacherMomma]

TeacherMomma, we have discussed in private messages and on other threads that private loans through Sallie Mae will allow forebearance options you have not done yet. But I am not here to argue with you. I was simply pointing out that by putting the loans into forbearance you could come up with the money to pay a lawyer.

But if divorce and separation is a better solution for you, then good luck with that and I wish you the best.

I have a few with Sallie Mae, most are not, but paid the $50 to request forbearance and was denied as I have exceeded the term allowed. None of the other private loans I have offer the voluntary forberance.