how can they repo a car if it's garaged?

[tdawg]

I'm curious about something. If you have a car that you are current on payments with, and intend to reaffirm, but the bk denies it because you are negative on your schedule I - schedule J math, then the loan company would want to repossess (Ford) even if you stay current from what I've heard. However, if you park the car in your garage, how could they do this? It seems like it would be pretty difficult if they had to stake out your house and then follow you and wait until you park it somewhere.

[justbroke]

The repo man may learn your daily patterns and take it while you're at work, going to the store, or some other inconvenient location. Why would you want to hide the car? If it belongs to them... you should turn it over without all the fuss.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

[tdawg]

I guess I should have bolded the "curious" in my post. I'm just trying to figure all of this out. I was curious how if someone intended to reaffirm and wanted to make the payments to fulfill their contract, but the bk courts did not allow them because they disposable income is negative (which is pretty much required to do a ch 7 in the first place) then even if you remain current (a "ride-thru") and you're in a state which doesn't allow them and with a lender that repos in those cases (Ford) then how the process works. Since a lot of people garage their vehicle and in a lot of cases if you're filing ch 7, you've been laid off, then you wouldn't be parking the vehicle at work. It would seem to be very costly and a major pain in the *ss for a repo company to get a vehicle in that situation.

Of course, if you just don't pay after you file and drive the car for a few months then let them repo it (when they knock on the door, give them the keys and open the garage - drive it into the driveway for them), then that is very costly to the lender as well. I'm not trying to "hide the car" or cause a fuss, I'm just trying to learn about how all of this works and the motivations behind actions by people, lawyers, courts, and creditors.

I'm current on my car payment now. So, what is the ethical action to take that won't draw scrutiny here? I kind of think me filing bk in the first place isn't the most ethical thing in the world, and I never thought I would need to. That being said, I really don't have a choice now. If I can get a new job in the next month or two, then I could probably reaffirm without a problem, which would be great, and that's an easy solution. But if not, then the decision isn't so easy.

If I just stop paying on it after I file and keep the car for 3 months without paying, then let them repossess it, that doesn't seem to me like the most kosher thing. If I keeping paying on it, can't reaffirm, then get it repo'ed anyways, then that eats up a lot of cash that I could have available to live on. From what I've seen, it seems like most people are behind on their payments when they file ch 7, then keep the car as long as they can without making a payment. Maybe that's the route I should go?

[keepmine]

There is a lot of caselaw that says, all you need do is offer to reaffirm. If the reaffirmation is denied, you have met your burden under the code and as long as you're current, you keep the car.

If, you can't comfortably afford the payments post bk, let the car go.

While making the car inaccessable may work for awhile, the lender can file a writ of replevin with your local circuit court and that becomes a court order to turn it over.

[justbroke]

I guess I should have bolded the "curious" in my post. I'm just trying to figure all of this out. I was curious how if someone intended to reaffirm and wanted to make the payments to fulfill their contract, but the bk courts did not allow them because they disposable income is negative (which is pretty much required to do a ch 7 in the first place) then even if you remain current (a "ride-thru") and you're in a state which doesn't allow them and with a lender that repos in those cases (Ford) then how the process works.

Ah... a much different question. In a State where the underlying non-bankruptcy law prohibits a creditor from repossessing collateral, the so-called rid-thru is possible.

However, there is much chatter about FMC (Ford) and their practice of repossessing cars not reaffirmed. You'd have to check for your specific State rights.

Since a lot of people garage their vehicle and in a lot of cases if you're filing ch 7, you've been laid off, then you wouldn't be parking the vehicle at work. It would seem to be very costly and a major pain in the *ss for a repo company to get a vehicle in that situation.

Actually, many Chapter 7 cases are from people not being laid off, but from being burried under debt. Repossession companies have other cars to get. They use a variety of tactics, including the most simple... calling the debtor!

Of course, if you just don't pay after you file and drive the car for a few months then let them repo it (when they knock on the door, give them the keys and open the garage - drive it into the driveway for them), then that is very costly to the lender as well. I'm not trying to "hide the car" or cause a fuss, I'm just trying to learn about how all of this works and the motivations behind actions by people, lawyers, courts, and creditors.

It's not about cost. The Repo Man gets paid to get the car. If he's finding it difficult, he may decide to tell the auto lender that they need to pursue a Replevin or other Court directed process to recover the vehicle. Hiding the car only works so long.

I'm current on my car payment now. So, what is the ethical action to take that won't draw scrutiny here?

Find out if your State non-bankruptcy law permits the lender to repossess a car for mere "material" default. That is, you're actually on-time and up to date on payments, but you "technically" defaulted due to bankruptcy.

Again, I'm only suggesting that you find out, from your attorney or by asking around, if your State allows this practice (repossession even though you're current). I just think that playing games with garaging the car, parking miles away from home and walking and other methods of keeping the Repo Man at bay... are just a pain. I have never had a repossession, or even under fear of repossession, so I don't know what it feels like. However, I know I don't want to wonder, everytime I take my car out the garage, would I be returning home with it that day.

[adviceplease]

Is this Ford Credit? I got into it with one of the people on the phone and told them good luck on getting the car it is garaged for 10 months out of the year and they said they would just send a sheriff to get it.

[justbroke]

Is this Ford Credit? I got into it with one of the people on the phone and told them good luck on getting the car it is garaged for 10 months out of the year and they said they would just send a sheriff to get it.

And they will (eventually) get a court order (Replevin). I just don't understand why anyone would want to play games. Again, I can't even empathize as I've never been in this situation, so don't understand the whole cat and mouse game that people play with the Repo Man.

I have heard some really talented attorneys complain about FMC (Ford Motor Credit) as being the most evil when it comes to bankruptcies. I would hope that in 2009, they are not as mean, since all these repossessed cars are starting to pile up... not to mention the actual new cars off the line.

When it comes to ride-thrus... I really dislike FMC's position on it. But, if you think of it from a bean-counter's position... with potentially no "adequate" protection to really keep them from losing more should you decide to walk away...

[justbroke]

Excuse me for perhaps being stupid, but wouldn't a car that has been deemed as repossessed being driven by the original owner be technically a stolen car?

It's not "deemed" repossessed until it has actually been repossessed. A Court Order (Writ of Replevin) has some power, but can take time for the plaintiff (lender) to get as it may require a hearing. If you refused to turn it over after the Writ has been granted... you could be in contempt of court.

Until such time, it's not "stolen", and I'm unsure if it would ever be considered "stolen".

[jribe]

I'm curious about something. If you have a car that you are current on payments with, and intend to reaffirm, but the bk denies it because you are negative on your schedule I - schedule J math, then the loan company would want to repossess (Ford) even if you stay current from what I've heard. However, if you park the car in your garage, how could they do this? It seems like it would be pretty difficult if they had to stake out your house and then follow you and wait until you park it somewhere.

or they will pound on the door for hours (ford did this to us) and generally make your life miserable until you let them repo it.

and if you call the cops- they will say to open the garage and give it to them (at least that's what the local cops told us)

[Chowder]

I'm curious about something. If you have a car that you are current on payments with, and intend to reaffirm, but the bk denies it because you are negative on your schedule I - schedule J math, then the loan company would want to repossess (Ford) even if you stay current from what I've heard. However, if you park the car in your garage, how could they do this? It seems like it would be pretty difficult if they had to stake out your house and then follow you and wait until you park it somewhere.

You'll have to check out your state laws. In most cases, they cannot open even an unlocked garage door, they cannot move one car to get to your car, they cannot open a gate, and most importantly, they must leave if you tell them to, or offer any resistance.

Some play by the rules, some don't. The ones that don't are capable of some incredibly stupid crap.

[adviceplease]

I was just ticked off that I was a little behind and I had made arrangements with someone prior and then this new "B" was telling me different. I had already paid out over $20,000 on this car and they wanted to take it with only $8,000 left to go. I paid it up but after my cars are paid off they can kiss my you know what. Hopefully they do not give us crap because we are keeping the 2 cars we have with them.

And they will (eventually) get a court order (Replevin). I just don't understand why anyone would want to play games. Again, I can't even empathize as I've never been in this situation, so don't understand the whole cat and mouse game that people play with the Repo Man.

I have heard some really talented attorneys complain about FMC (Ford Motor Credit) as being the most evil when it comes to bankruptcies. I would hope that in 2009, they are not as mean, since all these repossessed cars are starting to pile up... not to mention the actual new cars off the line.

When it comes to ride-thrus... I really dislike FMC's position on it. But, if you think of it from a bean-counter's position... with potentially no "adequate" protection to really keep them from losing more should you decide to walk away...

[swampwiz]

It's not "deemed" repossessed until it has actually been repossessed. A Court Order (Writ of Replevin) has some power, but can take time for the plaintiff (lender) to get as it may require a hearing. If you refused to turn it over after the Writ has been granted... you could be in contempt of court.

Until such time, it's not "stolen", and I'm unsure if it would ever be considered "stolen".

OK, so if you're in contempt of court, you are guilty of a crime such that the judge can summarily throw you in jail - and not release you until you give up the car.

[justbroke]

OK, so if you're in contempt of court, you are guilty of a crime such that the judge can summarily throw you in jail - and not release you until you give up the car.

That would probably be the case. I don't personally know of anyone, or even through reading on-line, that has been jailed over this. I don't know why someone would go so far as to get themselves arrested over a car... but... ya never know.

[AngelinaCatHub]

OK, so if you're in contempt of court, you are guilty of a crime such that the judge can summarily throw you in jail - and not release you until you give up the car.

Contempt of Court can also cost you a fine, jail, or both. Contempt is a very serious charge and the name fits. It means the Judge is really Peed off. 'Hub