Means Test Question

[bridie43]

I am basically the sole supporter of my household which consists of myself, my husband and my two daughters. I have been married for about two years now to my second husband who is an immigrant from another country.

I have received conflicting advice on what to put down for income in the means test. I am filing bankruptcy, ch 7, alone, not with my husband so here is what I think I need to include for income:

My gross pay from my fulltime job
Any interest from svgs accounts (does interest from 529 college savings accounts count?)
Child support
Monthly amount my current husband contributes


The lawyer I consulted with told me that I have to include 100% of my current husband's income, even though he's not filing with me, but the NOLO book states I have to include in Chap1, page 17.

Anyone know which is the right answer?

[backtoschool]

Anyone who lives in the house with you and contributes anything to expenses has to be included in your income for the means test.

You can in theory put only the amount that your husband contributes to the expenses, but if you put less than a full amount that your husband contributes, your petition will be looked at much more closely especially if you are close to the median or over the median.

You need to have very detailed records of what your husband is spending his income on instead of the household expenses because you probably will be asked questions about his contributions.

[bridie43]

Anyone who lives in the house with you and contributes anything to expenses has to be included in your income for the means test.

You can in theory put only the amount that your husband contributes to the expenses, but if you put less than a full amount that your husband contributes, your petition will be looked at much more closely especially if you are close to the median or over the median.

You need to have very detailed records of what your husband is spending his income on instead of the household expenses because you probably will be asked questions about his contributions.

So basically the lawyer gave us that advice to make it easier. It would be hard to document where his money goes since it's basically cash tips. I guess I'll just include it and hope for the best.

[backtoschool]

So basically the lawyer gave us that advice to make it easier. It would be hard to document where his money goes since it's basically cash tips. I guess I'll just include it and hope for the best.

I would include it. Are you close to the median for your state with it?

[Michigan1951]

backtoschool, why are you in an asset case? If so, what happens?

[Michigan1951]

why are you an asset case?

[Michigan1951]

asset case?

duplicate post reply, sorry.

[bridie43]

I would include it. Are you close to the median for your state with it?

I don't know yet. If I can get an hour of peace and quiet I'll be able to do it and let you know. Rainy day and kids are in the house. They have radar each time I try to do something important. lol

[OhioFiler]

Which portion of your husband's income is not contributed to your household expenses?

[MSbklawyer]

I'm assuming that you are NOT in a community property state. If you are, this answer might change:

You have to include his income, but there is a line on the means test for backing out amounts he does not contribute to household expenses. There is no law that says he has to contribute to household expenses. You need to tell the truth, of course, but if the fact is that he doesn't contribute all his income to the household, then you have every right to back that amount out.

Your husband can save his money, he can bury it in a hole in the back yard, he can send all or part of it to his mama back in the home country, he can drink it all up, he can gamble it away -- or he can contribute it to household expenses. It's his money and it's his choice. And if he decides not to contribute it to household expenses, there's not a damn thing the trustee can do about it.

Now, if you have a husband living with you and you claim on your means test that your husband is not contributing a substantial part of his income to household expenses, is the trustee going to put you under an electron microscope? Yes, he will. But HE, the trustee, bears the burden of proof that the husband is contributing more than you say he is. But you shouldn't be afraid to back out on the means test that part of your husband's income that he really and truly doesn't contribute to your household.

[backtoschool]

why are you an asset case?

To answer your question Michigan1951, I got grilled at my 341 by my trustee. Look up my past posts if you want the details. I was a formerly high income filer and the trustee was just certain I hid assets under my mattress.

So basically, the trustee found two $500 checks I had written to my mother in the past year as gifts. He is calling that $1,000 a preferential payment to my mother. That is my only asset. I just found out what the preference was yesterday when my lawyer finally talked to the trustee. I thought it was my saab, but it wasn't.

Clearly I will find a way to give my mother the $1,000 to pay the trustee and then hopefully he can take his Elmer Fudd self back into cartoonland.

[OhioFiler]

To answer your question Michigan1951, I got grilled at my 341 by my trustee. Look up my past posts if you want the details. I was a formerly high income filer and the trustee was just certain I hid assets under my mattress.

So basically, the trustee found two $500 checks I had written to my mother in the past year as gifts. He is calling that $1,000 a preferential payment to my mother. That is my only asset. I just found out what the preference was yesterday when my lawyer finally talked to the trustee. I thought it was my saab, but it wasn't.

Clearly I will find a way to give my mother the $1,000 to pay the trustee and then hopefully he can take his Elmer Fudd self back into cartoonland.

Some of us like cartoonland!

[Michigan1951]

I don't know why people are blasting the Trustee and calling him names like Elmer Fudd in cartoonland, when we all know that bankruptcy isn't suppose to be in favor of us in the first place. He is doing his job, and by the law. I am nervous about my case, but it is what it is. I guess it tells me that denial is unbecoming. I came to this forum to learn what might happen as my case goes along. NOT to read bashing or name calling like we are children. And, I'd be careful because he could be reading every word you write............And if GURU, means this kind of thing, I'd rather be called a Newbie.

[MSbklawyer]

I don't know why people are blasting the Trustee and calling him names like Elmer Fudd in cartoonland . . .

If "Elmer Fudd" were the worst name most trustees got called, they'd consider that a good day.

Some trustees, like some debt collectors, appear to relish their 'authority' and their ability to "grind their heel" on the people who are unfortunate enough to find themselves in bankruptcy and to make things as humiliating for those people as possible. I think that's where she is coming from.

I am nervous about my case . . .

Good. You deserve it. May you have one of those kinds of trustees.

I came to this forum to learn what might happen as my case goes along.

People post here for a lot of reasons: To share information, to learn, and to let off steam with people similarly situated. Usually, hopefully at least, somewhat sypathetic people who may be able to offer help or encouragement. She was trying to answer your question about why she was considered an asset case and, in the course of that, share some of her understandable frustrations about her trustee's overly aggressive searching under rocks because she formerly had a high income.

NOT to read bashing or name calling like we are children.

If you're not a child, your a dead ringer for one of those tattle tale little hall monitors in grade school that absolutely LIVED for pat on the head he got when he got to tell on someone for having chewing gum and who always got their jollies by correcting other people for their perceived shortfalls.

Get a life.

[jribe]

I don't know why people are blasting the Trustee and calling him names like Elmer Fudd in cartoonland, when we all know that bankruptcy isn't suppose to be in favor of us in the first place. He is doing his job, and by the law. I am nervous about my case, but it is what it is. I guess it tells me that denial is unbecoming. I came to this forum to learn what might happen as my case goes along. NOT to read bashing or name calling like we are children. And, I'd be careful because he could be reading every word you write............And if GURU, means this kind of thing, I'd rather be called a Newbie.

as far as i saw - backtoschool answered your question. Why the hostility?

BTW- No trustee would be reading a site like this to try and find someone in their docket. They have better things to do, in all honesty. Is that what you think, and why you wrote the comment?

ROFL