Interesting chat with a BK Attorney

[987654]

In case you didn't see my thread http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/t4624...ing-today.html, there was a very friendly BK attorney sitting around my 341 hearing today who I chatted with for about half an hour.

Besides offering me free help (atypical lawyer behaviour), we chatted a bit about BK.

Interesting point#1: He felt I should be able to get my student loans discharged as well under a hardship hearing. I thought it was very difficult, but he thought I had a good chance. I am kicking myself for not asking for his card...and I only got his first name. I'll do some looking into it, but would gladly pay him to save myself all that dosh.

Intersting point #2: He says that under the new laws it's not that much different, there is just a lot more paperwork, and a good lawyer would be able to get anyone into Chapter 7...he mentioned things like the 15% you're allowed to give to charity, maximum contributions to retirement, etc. Basically you do that for a few months, and then quit as soon as you're discharged...

Interesting point #3...MBNA was one of Bush's largest contributors, and their lobbyists wrote the new BK laws. He says all it will do is increase divorce, bank robberies and suicide...and I tend to agree.

Interesting point #4...Utilities. He told me that anything I pay between the date of filing and the date of discharge is basically an overpayment...I don't owe it since it will be discharged. He said send a letter with a copy of your discharge and tell them any payments made must be credited towards future bills! I never knew that...and the bills are in my BF's name, even though I pay them Would have been nice considering that's 3 winter months of high bills...

Interesting point #5...creditors technically *can* object after the 341, but he said they almost never prevail if fought. They have to file something, and he said there is a rule for recovering costs/fees/penal damages if they don't prevail, so once you tell them you wont roll over they go away 99% of the time.

Interesting point #6...he thinks other BK lawyers suck LOL. He said he's seen cases tossed because people claimed they didn't have books or music CD's, claimed they didn't have any jewelry even though they showed up in court wearing wedding rings, etc., and even a few that checked 'none' for clothing! The interesting bit was one of the head Trustees for my 'zone' has a BK attorney wife, and she was the worst offender!

It was a very interesting talk...he was such a NICE guy it was hard to believe he was a lawyer LOL.

[alice0427]

I've often wondered how the new BK laws will affect suicide rates. It's bound to increase, as are the number of "affordable bankruptcies," in which people simply move away and leave no forwarding address.

The thing I hate most about the new law is 1) the presumption of negligence for ALL filers, and 2) the fact that the belt was tightened for debtors while very little reform is required from creditors. I find it laughable that credit card companies wrote the majority of the bill. They're the other half of the d@mn problem!!!!

Fawkers.

[3131tj]

school loans?

not too sure about that. Not that I was going to try, but I did check into a bit and I think you need to be dead, dying or homeless (basically put) but good luck if you can.

Not clear on pt #4. Meaning that you don't have to pay utilities b/t yesterday and January 14th? How did you get utilities discharged? I guess I didn't know you could even try. Well, I was not behind on any utility payments.

MBNA sucks and I am glad I screwed them twice (had 2 cards). They were the company that pushed me over the edge by not working with me! I am reaffirming my debt with another card I have with my credit union! nah nah nah to YOU MBNA

as for finding that att'y, can you look on Pacer and see others who had their 341 yesterday? Maybe you will recognize his name, or the time of his hearings. Just a thought

[Becky C]

"nah nah nah to YOU MBNA"

I feel that way about Fleet -- now Bank of America -- before we filed BK, when I called and asked if they would give me a lower rate so I wouldn't have to transfer their balance to another card, they said "No, actually we're planning to raise your rate next month because you haven't been using your card anymore."

Ain't big banks somethin' else?!

Becky

[Minnymouth]

How's that - raise you rates IF you use them, and raise your rates IF YOU DON'T USE THEM......

Talk about a no win situtation................

All it boils down too is - if you use THEIR CARD - YOUR GONNA PAY..................BIGTIME.... from here on out....

Just my thoughts,

Minny

[Genenco]

How's that - raise you rates IF you use them, and raise your rates IF YOU DON'T USE THEM......

Talk about a no win situtation................

All it boils down too is - if you use THEIR CARD - YOUR GONNA PAY..................BIGTIME.... from here on out....

Just my thoughts,

Minny

Reminds me when Dicover Card told the holders (Who paid off their cards every month) they'd start charging a monthly fee..Oh my! They got such an uproar, they backed off!

I cannot remember who the credit guru was, but he was the one who led the fight and I believe posts nationally. His advice is so sound, smart and really simple, you'd almost smack yourself in the head and say "Oh gee, why didn't I think of that?"

But that showed alot of people that the CC companies "Offer" alot, but well expect to make "Alot" back

Gotta play the game to YOUR advantage!

[987654]

not too sure about that. Not that I was going to try, but I did check into a bit and I think you need to be dead, dying or homeless (basically put) but good luck if you can.

Not clear on pt #4. Meaning that you don't have to pay utilities b/t yesterday and January 14th? How did you get utilities discharged? I guess I didn't know you could even try. Well, I was not behind on any utility payments.

MBNA sucks and I am glad I screwed them twice (had 2 cards). They were the company that pushed me over the edge by not working with me! I am reaffirming my debt with another card I have with my credit union! nah nah nah to YOU MBNA

as for finding that att'y, can you look on Pacer and see others who had their 341 yesterday? Maybe you will recognize his name, or the time of his hearings. Just a thought

On #4, he implied that as of the date of my discharge, I am officially 'debt free'...so I should send a copy of my BK discharge, and tell them that I want any money paid between 9/30 (my filing date) and the discharge date applied towards future bills. I didn't ask for clarification, but it deserves a look into.

On the student loans, he started by mentioning they aren't discharged automatically, and I said I knew that they were nearly impossible to get rid of. He said not so...you can request a hardship hearing, and if you can show that your situation will not be changing anytime soon you can get them discharged as well. So he looked at my income, and that since I am self employed as a seamstress and would never be able to get a 'higher' paying job in my field, I would probably be able to get the student loans written off.

I'll look on Pacer to see if I can find him.

[CindyLou]

MBNA was the last straw for me! I had NEVER I mean NEVER missed a CC payment or even been late with over 25,000 in debt. Both of my MBNA cards were 9.9%. I got a letter from them stating that because of my high balances to credit ratios they were increasing my apr to a whopping 22.9%. I begged for them to lower and they refused. I never paid even one bill at the higher rate!! I ceased paying them that day and now 3 years later finally filed. The funny thing is that no one ever sued me and I barely got calls or letters. Really weird....any way I am just so happy to on the road to a new start. No more credit cards!! Only one for emergencies and car rentals.

[mlc]

I'm glad to hear things went well for you. I'd also like to thank you for that student loan info. Dh graduated college in 98, but hasn't paid a dime on his loans because he's never been able to afford it. This info is very helpful to us.

[pink_amulet]

Regarding point #4...

Are you filing on past due amounts on these utilities??? I know here in IL if you file on past due amounts on CERTAIN utilities they WILL charge you a deposit. So depending on how much you are past due, it's just better to pay it.

pink_amulet

[FoolAndHisMoney]

As for point 1 you could still claim a hardship discharge if you are in a chapter 13 paying student loans, but it must be a "hardship" in th eyes of the judge. It's hard for us to define what really consitutes a hardship. I guess all judges are different.


As for point 2 yes it's more paperwork, but most of the new laws seem like it makes it harder to commit fraud and abuse. I read it many times and most people pre oct 17 that qualify for a chapter 7 then may still qualify today. When you read some posts here that some filers "forgot something" on the paperwork this will be a thing of the past though. Everything must be PERFECT or you will have problems. The 15% to charity is allowed by federal law, but a debtor must have a history of this. You obviously can't start donating a couple of months before filing. I'm sure they will watch out for this one. Unless it's a qualified pension plan 401k and IRA contributions are not allowed as an expense. Loan payments for 401k's DO count as an expense, so I imagine many people will borrow against their accounts just to increase their expenses and use the borrowd money to pay for legal fees.

Point 3 both political parties are on the payroll of someone. Everyone knows that. While the new laws will stop abuse it's an insult for debtors to get these demands from the biggest borrowers and spenders on the planet. I am insulted when a member of congress asks me to take a financial management course since I don't know how to manage money. Get real! Look who's talking.


Point 5 yeah it's expensive for creditors to dispute anything under old and new law.

Point 6 I guess people think that since it's exempt worthless assets such as old CD's, socks and underwear they don't bother listing it. Everything the debtor has interest in (even underwear ) must be listed to show your honest with the courts.

[sassy]

My husband and I filed last Dec. (2004). We have avoided all the offers in the mail for new credit cards and it is a wonderful feeling each month not to have to pay any bills for those. We use a Visa debit card and cash and are so much happier. Since we can buy most anything with the debit card (as long as we have the money in the bank) so I don't plan on ever getting back into credit cards. I just don't see the need and the longer we are without them, the more we like it. It's like REAL freedom!

[bkfiler]

thats excellent sassy! great to hear!

thats sort of how i feel. been on cash for quite awhile now and doing fine. cant see a reason to have any more then a few 1000 in credit cards if even that to be honest.

i dont even see why they give people credit cards if they dont expect to have lots of problems. if you have a business thats one thing but why everyday people. its beyond me and should be outlawed imo.

[AAAArt]

The problem with no cc's is that it is hard to get your credit scores high enough to qualify for low rates on houses and cars w/out cc's and other types of credit showing on a credit report.

[Leo]

Forgot assets

My problem is I forgot to list a couple assets. A couple things in the garage and my wedding ring. I wasn't wearing that because I just had surgery which forced me to take it off and I totally forgot about it. I literally did not go in there (the garage) when I filed. It's nothing big, but they don't know what your intent was. Another problem, maybe. We're married and I'm filing for myself only. 95% of the stuff in the house belongs to my spouse. Just wondering if that looks strange. It's been hard enough the last couple years. Don't need anymore problems. I'm not a cheat, but again, they don't know that.