OMG Please help!

[MSbklawyer]

The Reaffirmation got signed when we were under a CH 7. Then the UST converted us to a 13. We stayed in a 13 for around 18 months and then due to a loss in dh's income we were converted back to a 7 again and got our discharge.

Gotcha. Ok, then I would agree, you need to file another reaff. Your plan nullified your previous reaff when you converted to 13. The old reaff isn't automatically revived when you convert to 7.

[aces67]

Gotcha. Ok, then I would agree, you need to file another reaff. Your plan nullified your previous reaff when you converted to 13. The old reaff isn't automatically revived when you convert to 7.

The fact that you agree with my lawyer does make me feel a little better. I know there's no guarantees but I'm hoping for the best!

[OhioFiler]

The fact that you agree with my lawyer does make me feel a little better. I know there's no guarantees but I'm hoping for the best!

There are guarantees. The law is on your side here. Why consider the words of a customer service rep over the advice of your attorney and another?

[car67]

the first re-aff was in the first chapt 7


plaintiff bankrupt party in this case switches to a 13
mooting the 7 as closed case

situation forces plaintiff to convert back to a 7
which is a new case...... You cant drag re aff from
first case into third case.......

Law is on your side dont listen to CSR rep I would bank on it!

[music12]

ohiofiler, you are of course right, and i am sure aces will be fine here.

but one should be aware in general that just because the law is on somebody's side does not mean a judge will not decide the opposite way anyway if the other lawyer decides to pursue it. not all judges or lawyers care about the law, and then again not all judges and lawyers understand it. the system is far, far from perfect.

[banca rotta]

Something doesn't quite make sense: Why would you sign a reaffirmation agreement if you were in a 13? Reaffirmations only occur in chapter 7. In a 13, you don't reaffirm. There's no need to. You put the debt into the plan, or state in the plan that you are paying the debt outside the plan.

I was wondering this too. I guess the lawyer doesn't know this.

The reaf agreement wasn't even needed in the 13.

[OhioFiler]

ohiofiler, you are of course right, and i am sure aces will be fine here.

but one should be aware in general that just because the law is on somebody's side does not mean a judge will not decide the opposite way anyway if the other lawyer decides to pursue it. not all judges or lawyers care about the law, and then again not all judges and lawyers understand it. the system is far, far from perfect.

I was trying to help the OP see the situation was much more hopeful than she expressed. Nothing more, nothing less.

[aces67]

I was trying to help the OP see the situation was much more hopeful than she expressed. Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks everyone! I received a copy of the letter that my lawyer sent to the finance company. It's VERY convincing. Sites several BK laws that back up DH and I and it clearly shows that the reaffirmation agreements is null and void. I just hope the finance company agrees and gives up. My lawyer told me not to speak with them at all and he has told them in the letter that any further questions on this loan should be addressed directly to him!

I'm trying not to get too excited yet but it is looking like we are in the clear.

I'll keep you posted! Our case has been so long and difficult and drawn out.

[RBisDebtFree]

Btw, your case is not closed yet? It seems like you have been discharged few months ago. I don't know details but just wanted to know if they are getting back to you on a closed case?

[aces67]

Btw, your case is not closed yet? It seems like you have been discharged few months ago. I don't know details but just wanted to know if they are getting back to you on a closed case?

Yes my case is closed. It closed in August.

[aljohnson007]

Plain and simple - In Ch7, if represented, the attorney must approve and sign the reaffirm agreement. If he didn't, the loan is discharged along with the other debts unless the debtor appeared before the bk judge and got it approved which is very unlikely.

[Calthius]

The reaffirmation does not need to be signed by a judge if your lawyer signed it.

[aljohnson007]

Cal, I think that is what I said.

[Calthius]

Sorry I hadn't read the second page of the posts.

[aces67]

The letter my lawyer wrote says that A reaffirmation agreement was filed between HSBC auto and the debtors on 1/07. That case was then converted to a Ch 13 on 2/07. That plan was confirmed on 6/07. The case was then reconverted to a 7 on 4/09 and discharged on 7/27/09.

It goes on to say that the chapter 13 plan allowed for direct payments to HSBC which upon confirmation became binding on both the debtor and the secured creditor. It states per 11 USC 1327 under the bankruptcy code 348 (a) states that the conversion of a case from one chapter to another chapter constitutes a new order for relief under the chapter to which the case is being converted thereby dissolving any legal effect of the original reaffirmation agreement.

Given the provisions of 11 USC 348 (a) and failure upon the secured creditor's part to submit a new agreement once the case was RECONVERTED to a Ch 7 the debtor's have now been discharged of the debt in question.

HSBC failed to to submit a new agreement for execution under the the reconverted chapter.

If you have any information rebutting the provision as stated above please contact my office to further discuss the matter. Otherwise your cooperation in the voluntary surrender of this auto is appreciated, keeping in mind that this debt has been discharged as a matter of law.

So what do you guys think? The letter looks good and I do think my lawyer is right considering the fact that my mortgage company also agrees. There lawyer made us sign a new agreement when the case was reconverted in April of this year.