Marshal's Notice of Execution

[NSH]

Angelina, what confuses me is what you are calling the four year rule. As far as I know there is no 4 year rule, only a 3 year rule (for when the taxes were supposed to be filed), a 2 year rule (for when you actually filed if you were late) and a 240 day rule for if th IRS assessed the amount you owed more recently.

[backtoschool]

I am sorry that I was not clear--I was posting after Midnight, after all. LOL.

We filed BK7 12/28/2007. We had hoped to be able to discharge some of our back IRS taxes. There is a 4-year rule out there that knocked out the 2005 taxes (filed 2006), and anything younger than that.

We thought that perhaps we could discharge the 2004 taxes (filed 2005). It would have worked if we had filed our return on April 15, 2005. Instead, our CPA filed an Extension which required our tax return to be filed by November 15, 2005, which it was. So that knocked the 2004 taxes out because of the filing dates.

I understand that this is clear as 'mud'. I don't understand it either. But this is what we got from our *@##!*&% attorney.

The people at the IRS WILL work with you about payments, otherwise 'Hub was about to have his SS check garnished.

At least the beauty of our case is that as an asset case, most of the assets 'recovered' went to pay the IRS.

I think your 2004 taxes would have met all the deadlines and been able to be discharged since you filed for bankruptcy 12/18/07 and filed your taxes 11/15/2005. You met the guidelines for tax discharge as far as I can see. I think your attorney cost you some money.

[AngelinaCat]

Angelina, what confuses me is what you are calling the four year rule. As far as I know there is no 4 year rule, only a 3 year rule (for when the taxes were supposed to be filed), a 2 year rule (for when you actually filed if you were late) and a 240 day rule for if th IRS assessed the amount you owed more recently.

All our tax returns were dutifully filed, but mostly in November of each year, not April 15.

Because our tax return for the 2004 taxes was filed November 2005, and we filed 12/28/2007, that is not a FULL to-the-day Four Year gap between our filing of the taxes and filing of the BK.

HHM has an article somewhere on here about that, because he responded to our questions about this very question with his information.

[backtoschool]

All our tax returns were dutifully filed, but mostly in November of each year, not April 15.

Because our tax return for the 2004 taxes was filed November 2005, and we filed 12/28/2007, that is not a FULL to-the-day Four Year gap between our filing of the taxes and filing of the BK.

HHM has an article somewhere on here about that, because he responded to our questions about this very question with his information.

I am not seeing any 4 year rule, only a 3 year rule and a 2 year rule that are applied simultaneously. Unless the IRS filed a substitute return for you (an SFR) or you made an offer-in-compromise during the 3 or two year period, you should have been able to discharge those taxes. Making an offer-in-compromise stops the clock on the 2 year and 240 day periods, so maybe that was what happened?

[AngelinaCat]

I don't know. 'Hub took care of all of that. But I DO know that the fact that our 2004 income tax return was filed on November 15, 2005, and NOT April 15, 2005, we could not discharge the income tax,

[leena]

28K is going to put you into a chapter 7 by the median income of any state, and basic living expenses will more than eat that up so no worries about having enough income to fund a 13, either.

Garnishments are usually not a speedy process. File your taxes and work something out with the IRS, they will work with you believe it or not. Save up for the BK, or if you are really up a creek start looking into filing Pro Se. Not an ideal way, but better than everyone and their brother garnishing you.

[backtoschool]

28K is going to put you into a chapter 7 by the median income of any state, and basic living expenses will more than eat that up so no worries about having enough income to fund a 13, either.

Garnishments are usually not a speedy process. File your taxes and work something out with the IRS, they will work with you believe it or not. Save up for the BK, or if you are really up a creek start looking into filing Pro Se. Not an ideal way, but better than everyone and their brother garnishing you.

There is absolutely no way that the OP could handle his complicated case pro se. There are tax issues, a huge amount of unsecured debt, and the OP is an independent contractor who used to have a business.

[NSH]

28K is going to put you into a chapter 7 by the median income of any state, and basic living expenses will more than eat that up so no worries about having enough income to fund a 13, either.

Garnishments are usually not a speedy process. File your taxes and work something out with the IRS, they will work with you believe it or not. Save up for the BK, or if you are really up a creek start looking into filing Pro Se. Not an ideal way, but better than everyone and their brother garnishing you.

Leena, what does it mean to file Pro Se?

[backtoschool]

Leena, what does it mean to file Pro Se?

It means filing without a lawyer and doing it all yourself.

[NSH]

Ah okay, which I would assume would be a HORRIBLE idea given my situation, right?

[backtoschool]

Ah okay, which I would assume would be a HORRIBLE idea given my situation, right?

Yes it would be a horrible idea, lol.

[leena]

Yes it would be a horrible idea, lol.

Yes, looking at the whole picture I have to agree with Backtoschool it would no doubt be a horrible idea to file Pro Se. It is probably a bad idea for most people, actually.

So, you are basically in a race to see how fast you can file your taxes and get started with an attorney to handle all of this.

Assuming you do end up not being able to file on the taxes (I will not even take a guess on that, way to complex), I think the most complex thing you will be looking at is that you were an independent contractor-an attorney will enjoy that. As to the large debts, well your income is small now and while those debts may well get an extra hard look, they will likely not be a big problem with your BK.

I feel for you because I also had to wait a long while to file-not enough money for a lawyer and I needed to catch up on some taxes and filings as well. In the end I filed three years worth of taxes (long story), only owed about $150.00 bucks, and used my Health Savings Account (Ouch!) to hack up the roughly $1,700.00 it cost for my simple BK. Now I am going to owe around $500.00 next year because I did that, but it was well worth it.

[NSH]

Awesome information, guys. Honestly, as heartless as it may sound, the one thing I have going for me is that I have no assets, no money, no bank accounts, and the debts are all at least two years old. If the Trustees opt to make my life a living hell, I don't see how that would help my creditors, to be honest. There is no rock to look under, no hidden well to tap, and no resource pool for them to come after. All they could do, in essence, is to make a lot more work for themselves, but I guess I have to be prepared for that.

[NSH]

Sorry to double post, but I have to address this:

NSH this whole Marshal stuff is BS, it`s scare tactics. Listen I just got off the phone with another lawyer....He told me to read what the execution says; It says they put a lein on my possesions but nowhere on that letter does it say they can break into my house or I have to let them in when they come. All it says is they have a lein and THAT`S IT! It doesn`t say they can break into your place or that you have to let them in.The only way they can get in is if they get a search warrant and a Judge never grants that in cases like this (I`ve been searching since April and I couldn`t find one single case) All they can do is come to your door and ask for money or something of value, but YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LET THEM IN. Now I`m really pissed because I got conned out of a few bucks by a lawyer when I got that first exec

I desperately hope you are right, because it may tak a while before I can file my taxes (I mean a month or two, not years or anything) and that means it may take that long for the BK. Add to that the fact that the last attorney I spoke to, who I described above, wants between 5 and 7.5K, which is something I don't have right now! Anyway, on to my concern.

This same attorney, when I told him about the Marshal's letter, knew Ronald Moses, and he told me that if I deny his men access to my apartment, he could get a warrant to break in. Mind you, this is coming from a lawyer, BUT the thing is that he also has a vested interest in getting me to move forward faster, as he gets paid sooner if I use him. In his defense (in case he is wrong, or I misunderstood him) he NEVER said how likely or unlikely it would be for Moses's men to get a search warrant and break in. He was too busy telling me about discharging income taxes as well as the fact that with my huge debt I would most likely be red-flagged by the US Trustee, and that I could have a long fight on my hands.

So does what he says mean that your source may be wrong? Because I am completely ignorant about these matters, which is why I am asking. Thanks again!

[backtoschool]

Sorry to double post, but I have to address this:



I desperately hope you are right, because it may tak a while before I can file my taxes (I mean a month or two, not years or anything) and that means it may take that long for the BK. Add to that the fact that the last attorney I spoke to, who I described above, wants between 5 and 7.5K, which is something I don't have right now! Anyway, on to my concern.

This same attorney, when I told him about the Marshal's letter, knew Ronald Moses, and he told me that if I deny his men access to my apartment, he could get a warrant to break in. Mind you, this is coming from a lawyer, BUT the thing is that he also has a vested interest in getting me to move forward faster, as he gets paid sooner if I use him. In his defense (in case he is wrong, or I misunderstood him) he NEVER said how likely or unlikely it would be for Moses's men to get a search warrant and break in. He was too busy telling me about discharging income taxes as well as the fact that with my huge debt I would most likely be red-flagged by the US Trustee, and that I could have a long fight on my hands.

So does what he says mean that your source may be wrong? Because I am completely ignorant about these matters, which is why I am asking. Thanks again!

If you look way back in the thread, I cut and paste a section of the marshall's handbook that shows exactly what court papers the marshall has to get to enter your house forcibly. He can get a warrant to enter your house, but would have to prove he tried other means to contact you first. (which he can show) and would have to list what it is that he is going in your house to search for. This process would probably take a couple of months, but I am just guessing.

As I said before, the last attorney you talked to sounds like he really knows what he is talking about.