Would I be able to get a trustee to allow me to redeem my house by withdrawing $ ...

[swampwiz]

from my 401K post BK? Consider any other possible forced affirmations on personal items as well. It looks like I will be buying a home that will be about $18K (or I suppose only $15K after a realtor would get her greedy paws on it) over the exemption. Let's assume that I have no income, but do have a substantial 401K (> $160K) that I would break the day after the final judgement, and could easily get cash within a month or do. Could this be done, or would I have to prove that I could support the debt post BK.

Also in my state, as I understand it, an unsecured creditor cannot force the sale of the home. I am not sure how that would play out, but at least it seems like I would have an affirmed debt for the difference.

And before the standard weenies tell me to talk to a BK attorney, I will be doing that. I just want some answers now.

[AngelinaCat]

Standard weenies? Are you developing an attitude? After all, you come here asking advice and then don't like the answers the posters give you.

Withdrawing any money from a 401k is never a good idea, and if you do a search on 401ks here, you will find a good deal of opinions about that. Especially from people who have liquidated their 401ks trying to stave off the inevitable filing of BK. Then you get hit with the tax consequences of doing so.

[swampwiz]

No, the comment was to the weenies who tell me talk to an attorney. I KNOW THAT ALREADY.

The withdrawl would be made POST BK, not PRE BK. I basically plan on retiring on my 401K post BK in a low cost country (hopefully I will be able to augment it by coming back to the USA and working a few nice gigs here and there.)

[AngelinaCatHub]

Swampwiz, you are not a wiz at all. I have followed some of your posts and many do not make logical sense. If you can buy a house for 17K, I sure would love to see it. Maybe under a bridge built out of cardboard.

We have all been there and the advice you have been given you still ask questions given multiple times over. It is not a good idea to kill your future taking good exempt money out of a 401K and your interest (penalties and regular tax) would just about equal the highest hit a junk credit card would do to you.

We on this forum are not lawyers, but those who have been there and done that, you best listen to. Making mistakes so common as what you ask, has been downfalls of many. Also your question about what the TT would think gives me vibes of possible "working the system".

We are here to help, but those who will not listen or research the "stickies" and do a search but keep "testing waters" are wasting their own time and ours. Due to previous posts your question is non-sequitor. 'Hub

[Flamingo]

from my 401K post BK? Consider any other possible forced affirmations on personal items as well. It looks like I will be buying a home that will be about $18K (or I suppose only $15K after a realtor would get her greedy paws on it) over the exemption. Let's assume that I have no income, but do have a substantial 401K (> $160K) that I would break the day after the final judgement, and could easily get cash within a month or do. Could this be done, or would I have to prove that I could support the debt post BK.

Also in my state, as I understand it, an unsecured creditor cannot force the sale of the home. I am not sure how that would play out, but at least it seems like I would have an affirmed debt for the difference.

And before the standard weenies tell me to talk to a BK attorney, I will be doing that. I just want some answers now.

My. my now we stomp our feet and huff and puff and try to blow the house down and get all the attention...Those "standard weanies" (which includes me, thank you) gave you the best advice posisible in your situation if it is, in fact, true, as it is very complicated. There is no free legal advice on this forum if that is what you are seeking. You've asked a huge amount of questions on here and got answers to every one and you are still "demanding" that you want answers now. Pick up the phone Monday morning and call an attorney (yep, there is that weanie advice again) and make sure you are straightforward with the lawyer and not beat around the bush as you have done to everyone on here.

[swampwiz]

No, you all don't understand. Currently, I have about $40K in cash, and a different homesite that I could sell for $40K - easily $30K for a quick sale. The total cost of the home will be $56K, with $3K for moving the home (i.e., it is currently at one homesite, and will be moved to another homesite, so the cost of moving would not be considered as part of the value of the home.) The home exemption is only $35K, so if the home value were $53K, I would need to come up with $18K (or perhaps that minus 6% real estate commission minus some discount for being a quick sale, etc.) If I were to have no income, then I would need to prove that I could come up with the cash, which I could POST BK. Let me repeat, POST BK. I'll repeat it again - PPOOSSTT BBKK! With my nice 401K, I could do so. My question is whether a trustee would accept it. I would think that this would not be a problem, but I don't know.

[backtoschool]

No, you don't understand. Currently, I have about $40K in cash, and a different homesite that I could sell for $40K - easily $30K for a quick sale. The total cost of the home will be $56K, with $3K for moving the home (i.e., it is currently at one homesite, and will be moved to another homesite, so the cost of moving would not be considered as part of the value of the home.) The home exemption is only $35K, so if the home cost $53K, I would need to come up with $18K (or perhaps that minus 6% real estate commission minus some discount for being a quick sale, etc.) If I were to have no income, then I would need to prove that I could come up with the cash, which I could POST BK. With my nice 401K, I could do so. My question is whether a trustee would accept it. I would think that this woul not be a problem, but I don't know.

Your posts are manic.

You have asked this question several times.

Here:

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=46206

Here:

http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=46211

and again earlier in this thread.

It is not that I am not understanding your posts. It is just that I am sick of answering the same question over and over again.

I will not be answering any more of your posts. I guess that makes me a "weenie" too.

[AngelinaCatHub]

No, you all don't understand. Currently, I have about $40K in cash, and a different homesite that I could sell for $40K - easily $30K for a quick sale. The total cost of the home will be $56K, with $3K for moving the home (i.e., it is currently at one homesite, and will be moved to another homesite, so the cost of moving would not be considered as part of the value of the home.) The home exemption is only $35K, so if the home value were $53K, I would need to come up with $18K (or perhaps that minus 6% real estate commission minus some discount for being a quick sale, etc.) If I were to have no income, then I would need to prove that I could come up with the cash, which I could POST BK. Let me repeat, POST BK. I'll repeat it again - PPOOSSTT BBKK! With my nice 401K, I could do so. My question is whether a trustee would accept it. I would think that this would not be a problem, but I don't know.

Well Mr. 'swampwiz': I am now convinced you are working a "system". You just cannot get advice here to commit Fraud. You have at least 6 month look-back at your finances and you are opening yourself up for a Federal slap on your a$$.

You have stated in past posts whether you should take big money jobs or not. You stated you wish to go overseas with 401K retirement of 160K. A mere pittance and taxable at that. If you ride the 401K stock market and pull 10% a year,that gets you a heaping $16K to live on. Social Security? I am on it. Forget it. Over seas I doubt they would give it to you.

A 17K house? Ludicrous. You state you own two properties one house must be moved? Lots-O-luck on that sale.

I am the last to damage a person's feelings but I believe you are either a phony, or need to set down and spend some quality time with, either a good bk lawyer, (I'm a weenie too) or a shrink.

As far as "POST BK, got it? Got it????" means nothing. It only means you stiffed others and are about to regret your stiffing of your measly retirement.

Your thinking is very skewed. I hope you get better. 'Hub

P.S.
If you currently have 40K in cash, you best not bk at all. Pay your debts. You have that ability, we did not.

[Amy26]

The questions and number of posts leads me to believe this person isn't really seeking advice at all but just looking for attention and trying to watch us run around like chickens with our heads cut off.

I believe everyone has given the advice needed and nothing more can really be said if this person will not listen to anything we say. Kinda reminds me of someone else we knew....

Anyhoo, I believe the best course of action would be to just not respond to their posts and feed the fire anymore.

[AngelinaCat]

I agree.

[drowningNdebt]

I only wish I had the money you do as in your posts. Then I wouldn't have to go BK and could have paid off my obligations/debts.

All your posts sound like your trying to put together an organized scam to get away with BK fraud, not good

[whipster1]

He's fake. Or on Meth...or both.

[swampwiz]

Well Mr. 'swampwiz': I am now convinced you are working a "system". You just cannot get advice here to commit Fraud. You have at least 6 month look-back at your finances and you are opening yourself up for a Federal slap on your a$$.

OK, I'll wait for 6 months to get the proper look back - whatever my attorney says.

You have stated in past posts whether you should take big money jobs or not. You stated you wish to go overseas with 401K retirement of 160K. A mere pittance and taxable at that. If you ride the 401K stock market and pull 10% a year,that gets you a heaping $16K to live on. Social Security? I am on it. Forget it. Over seas I doubt they would give it to you.

Not a mere pittance where $1K a month is a damn good salary. And I would expect to look for work from time to time when the job situation would recover. I would do work via O-Desk (I think that is what it is called) and complete with the Romanians and Russians. I could teach English, perhaps get a job at the embassy, etc.

A 17K house? Ludicrous. You state you own two properties one house must be moved? Lots-O-luck on that sale.

Let's review the original post, shall we?

I will be buying a home that will be about $18K (or I suppose only $15K after a realtor would get her greedy paws on it) over the exemption.

The exemption is $35K, so the total house would be $53K. That still may not sound like much, but it is good enough to get a very good condition 800 ft^2 house on a nice little lot in a cheap area of the country.

I am the last to damage a person's feelings but I believe you are either a phony, or need to set down and spend some quality time with, either a good bk lawyer, (I'm a weenie too) or a shrink.

Sorry for being very proactive and curious.

As far as "POST BK, got it? Got it????" means nothing. It only means you stiffed others and are about to regret your stiffing of your measly retirement.

You must have a problem with logic and reading comprehension. I was not regretful at all. I just want the trustee to say it's OK for me to reaffirm my debt with possibly no income, with the knowledge that I have a fat 401K from which I can withdraw cash and pay up immediately following the BK.

Your thinking is very skewed. I hope you get better. 'Hub

P.S.
If you currently have 40K in cash, you best not bk at all. Pay your debts. You have that ability, we did not.

So you are saying that I should draw out my 401K to pay my debts? I don't agree with you. OJ Simpson does not agree with you, and I'm sure that even the trustee and the MBA's at the creditors would feel the same way about their own 401Ks.

Of the 40K in cash is 23K of a grant that was given to me to buy a home after a natural disaster (to be combined with the proceeds from the sale of another homesite that had been purchased earlier with the intention of constructing a home, which had to be abandoned because of the bankruptcy.) I would be violating the fiduciary trust of that grant to NOT buy the home. And in any case, wouldn't it be better for me to not get any more into a hole so that the creditors would get nothing? As it stand now, the creditors are likely to 25%.

And as for me not taking advantage of the exemptions as they are on the books, that's like saying that someone should not take advantage of tax breaks. To quote Supreme Court Justice Learned Hand:

"Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes"

"The legal right of a taxpayer to decrease the amount of what otherwise would be his taxes, or altogether avoid them, by means which the law permits, cannot be doubted."

I am in my right to decrease the amount that I owe my creditors so long as they are legal. Congress and my state legislature wrote the laws that way - it is better for a corporation to take a small loss then to have citizenry impoverished and dependent on the public dole. If I am not forced to take a withdrawal from my 401K to pay the creditors, then so be it. The fancy MBA's at the creditors looked into the mathematical models to figure out how to maximize their lending yield. Obviously, I must have been doing something right - and quite frankly, had I not had a series of unexpected circumstances, those MBA's would have been right about me - just like the Masters of the Universe on Wall Street that somehow figured out that an immigrant maid should be able to buy a $500K home.

The bottom line is that we have all learned lessons in this. I will no longer be seduced by the low interest balance transfer come-ons - even though I used that leverage to put off paying for things and building a nest egg to invest in the market and do very well in it. This time it didn't work, but even if it did, it could have been possible that I would still have been in this position (albeit down the road a while) in the future due to continued difficulty finding proper work because the leaders of this country would rather allow foreigners to come in and take away the jobs of highly educated Americans.

[justbroke]

No, you all don't understand. Currently, I have about $40K in cash, and a different homesite that I could sell for $40K - easily $30K for a quick sale.

You are either a home builder/developer or the world's most unlucky speculator. You have some serious issues. While sinking money into secured debt -- which would hopefully also have enough exemptions to protect it in a BK -- it seems like you're attempting to "shelter" the money. (I do understand that you need to "spend" that grant money, but why not just give it back? I think it's unsecured anyhow, so BK would wipe it out. What's your end game?)

You need really good asset protection advice that no one on here is going to provide. There is no answer for you because you're on a Bankruptcy website, and, frankly, asking for advice on how to manipulate the system. People on this website very quickly learn that they need to give up all material (non-exempt) things for the chance of wiping their slate clean and starting over. On the contrary, you want your cake, and eat it too.

You are going to have homestead issues as well. The United States Trustee (UST) has some serious powers. In this particular case, the UST could quite easily have your case dismissed for what they call "bad faith". In a Chapter 7 liquidation case, there are several "tests" in order to show good faith. One of those is that the debtor is needy. The second is whether the debtor is honest. You seem neither.

In the end, perhaps you'll be able to work the system, but this is precisely why the Bankruptcy Abuse and Consumer Protection Act amendments to the Bankruptcy Code were made in 2005.

[Amy26]

Well, according to swamp-ditz, they have all the answers... why in the world are we even trying to help this super wizard of financial genius? We should have him solve all our problems... he obviously has all the answers.

" I just want the trustee to say it's OK for me to reaffirm my debt with possibly no income, with the knowledge that I have a fat 401K from which I can withdraw cash and pay up immediately following the BK."

That is the craziest thing I've heard in awhile... Hmmmm.... when will a trustee ever say its ok to reaffirm debt with no income? Probably never since it would be up to a judge. And no judge in his right mind is going to let you reaffirm debt that you can't support. And the statement about withdrawing from your fat 401k.... well I'm just not gonna touch that one because its just plain ignorant.

And dammit I got sucked back in again.... >< Seriously... a mod should just close these threads ... lol.