Sold a vehicle 10 months ago...buyer never transferred?

[AllMyFault]

I'm in CA....I intend to file for a 7 within the next few months. I just found out that a vehicle I sold 10 months ago is still in my name and the buyer never transferred it into his name. He just called me and said he lost the title and may need me to apply for lost title for him. I also never sent in the release of liability. Stupid I know. So, basically it will appear that I am selling this vehicle now and not taking any money as I was paid 10 months ago. I'm not sure if I should tell the buyer of my situation; I really dont know how to handle this. Any help would be greatly appreciated....I also have another 'sold vehicle' situation that I will post in another thread....Thanks!

[DebtEnder]

so 10 months ago you took fair market value for a car at an Arms length, ie a stranger or someone you have no real relationship with, but the title was never transferred over and now the guy has lost it. Alrighty.

The biggest thing with selling assets before filing is selling them for way below cost to friends and family. If you have some kind of paperwork from when you did "sell" it and that the value was FMV at the time then there's not much more you can do. Just be honest about it if asked. I do wonder what the buyer was doing for insurance if he did not have a tittle or deed or anything to the car.....

[justbroke]

Your buyer may be out of luck. The Trustee has very powerful avoidance powers. I don't know whether the Trustee will go after the vehicle or not, but it's possible. It also wouldn't be your problem. The Trustee would sue the person who "owns" the car now.

[AllMyFault]

Hmmm...the only paperwork I have is a hand written Bill of Sale signed by the both of us from Dec 11. 2008.

[2Bshinyandnew]

How did your buyer pay? Check? Cash? Can you provide any bank statements showing a deposits into your bank account totaling the purchase price of the car, even if it is cash? Bank records plus the signed bill of sale may be OK. How much did you sell the vehicle for? Without corresponding bank records, a bill of sale might not be enough. Have you consulted any BK attorney's yet?

[AllMyFault]

How did your buyer pay? Check? Cash? Can you provide any bank statements showing a deposits into your bank account totaling the purchase price of the car, even if it is cash? Bank records plus the signed bill of sale may be OK. How much did you sell the vehicle for? Without corresponding bank records, a bill of sale might not be enough. Have you consulted any BK attorney's yet?

Buyer paid cash and I never deposited the cash so no bank statements......sold the vehicle for $7,500. Talked to an attorney about this and never really got anything definitive.

[AllMyFault]

What documentation is usually required to show / prove the sale of an asset such as an auto? Do you simply tell the trustee?

[threnners]

I went through something like this when my stupid stbxh got a ticket in CA while the title of my car was in the process of being transferred to him.

Do the release of liability form like now: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg138.pdf
You could get a duplicate title (at the buyer's expense, mind you) and then he can apply for the new title in his name. All you really need would be that release of liability form really and a copy of the bill of sale. The trustee might take the DMV statement of facts form as well, where there is a part at the end where you can explain any special cirumstances such as yours. Check with the DMV and the attorney though just to be sure.

[AllMyFault]

I went through something like this when my stupid stbxh got a ticket in CA while the title of my car was in the process of being transferred to him.

Do the release of liability form like now: http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg138.pdf
You could get a duplicate title (at the buyer's expense, mind you) and then he can apply for the new title in his name. All you really need would be that release of liability form really and a copy of the bill of sale. The trustee might take the DMV statement of facts form as well, where there is a part at the end where you can explain any special cirumstances such as yours. Check with the DMV and the attorney though just to be sure.

Thanks for the info....I was hoping someone would reply that has been in the same position.

[backtoschool]

Thanks for the info....I was hoping someone would reply that has been in the same position.

I am in a similar situation. My trustee is questioning the transfer of my saab when I purchased a new Hyundai soon before filing.

Any transfer of property that happens close to filing will be questioned by the trustee. You will most likely have to exempt the car. That is what I did, and it is not clear if the trustee is going to leave the situation alone, although he did not object to my car exemption within the deadline to object. He did grill me on the car transfer at my 341 however. More info can be found by looking at my older posts.

[justbroke]

Thanks for the info....I was hoping someone would reply that has been in the same position.

That wouldn't stop the Trustee's avoidance powers. The Trustee can still move to avoid the transfer. Again, this wouldn't affect you personally.

I just want you to know the possibilities. Right now, you own the vehicle. When you go to your 341 Meeting, you'll be asked if you transferred any property in the last year. Since this will be a new transfer, you may be asked about it. Whether the Trustee smells "money" will determine if that ends the inquiry or not.

I would listen more to what backtoschool writes about the inquiry that ensued on that transfer. We only want you to be prepared... not trying to say this will happen.

Don't underestimate the Trustee.

[whipster1]

Actually you are the "legal" owner while the other guy is the "beneficial" owner...although the title is still in your name you sold it already, and you should get the other party to sign an affidavit to that.

Did he have insurance during all this time? Good evidence that the car was no longer "yours"...

But as others have posted the Trustee can fight if he wants to, but not really your problem, just the guy who bought it...OOOPS!

You may want to add that guy as a creditor if the trustee gets too interested in taking the car back, he could have a claim against you for whatever money he paid.

[AllMyFault]

Thanks again everyone....the information here is AWESOME!

[AllMyFault]

Actually you are the "legal" owner while the other guy is the "beneficial" owner...although the title is still in your name you sold it already, and you should get the other party to sign an affidavit to that.

Did he have insurance during all this time? Good evidence that the car was no longer "yours"...

But as others have posted the Trustee can fight if he wants to, but not really your problem, just the guy who bought it...OOOPS!

You may want to add that guy as a creditor if the trustee gets too interested in taking the car back, he could have a claim against you for whatever money he paid.

I'm still a bit confused....How would the trustee know the tuck hasn't been transferred? Whats my obligation to prove the sale? I have a bill of sale. What if the buyer never called me...I wouldn't even know that it hasn't been transferred, right?

[justbroke]

I'm still a bit confused....How would the trustee know the tuck hasn't been transferred? Whats my obligation to prove the sale? I have a bill of sale. What if the buyer never called me...I wouldn't even know that it hasn't been transferred, right?

The Trustee will ask you if you transferred any property. They then may ask for the information related to it. They will also ask if you receive fair market value for it. All standard. questions.

As part of the Trustee investigation into your assets, they should run a VIN check with the Registry of Vehicles to determine what property you own. If they see it's still in your name... this could get them "interested" in the property.

And yes, you'd never know it wasn't transferred. This would not come back at you though. Would feel sorry for the buyer if the Trustee used his/her avoidance power to take it back and sell it.

That's the worse case. Best case, the Trustee isn't too interested at all in this property that you "sold" before the BK. That's the most likely scenario.